Concealed Weapons on Board

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by easterly38

Oooh. The word "paranoid" has already been used. This thread should go bad soon.

Opps... sorry... maybe scared... frightened... insecure... worrying about something happening thats a million to one like getting caught in a Tsunami, Hurricane, off a rocky lee shore with broken mast and no engine.. actually that last one is more like 100,000/1... would that be more PC for you....

[easterly38]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Opps... sorry... maybe scared... frightened... insecure... worrying about something happening thats a million to one like getting caught in a Tsunami, Hurricane, off a rocky lee shore with broken mast and no engine.. actually that last one is more like 100,000/1... would that be more PC for you....

Boatman,

too funny! I'm with you on the odds part. if such situations were common, they would not make the news.

Before I saw your reply, I did amend mine. Maybe you saw it. I am also with you on the "don't go there" part. If I worry about my safety in a certain location, I don't go there if I can help it. Too many fun destinations in the world that are as close to worry-free as you can get. And I won't live long enough to get to them all.

[simonmd]

Leave the guns to Jack Bauer, he knows how to use them, most of us won't.

We discussed that sad case with the Canadian sailor not long ago and although terrifiying, things like that are VERY rare. In the vast majority of similar cases, no one gets hurt if you just do what they want. These guys are usualy not professionals but desperate people, they just want the goods and then to get the hell out of there. I hate to say it but if you play with fire, you're going to get burnt one day.

[capngeo]

Oh boy another gun thread!

I carry guns aboard, I ONLY sail the USA and Bahamas, the rest of the world can just wish I'd spend my money there.

[atoll]

we carried a variety of fire arms on2 1/2circumnavigations,allways declared them in europe carib australia ,concealed them in 3rd world countries,sadly disposed of them before returning to educate the kids in the uk.
these weapons fed us on wild boar in madagastgar, goats in the caribean, wild chickens and breadfruit ! in polynesia,grouse in westafrica,rabbits,ducks,geese in france,italy and greece,antelope in sudan and eritrea.
only had them available on 5 passsagesup and down the redsea,and at remote anchorages in venezuela,philipines and brazil as personal protection.
on the whole as a device for protection the world isa pretty safeplace.
hunting will look at cross bows and compound bows,plus shot guns are easy to buy once you are out of the paranoid parts of the world.
personallly if you feel you need a weapon for personal protection,they are readily available locally in areas that you might need one if you are going to stay there for a while.
other wise ther choice is yours,but so are the legal risks

[Christian Van H]

Originally Posted by capngeo

Oh boy another gun thread!

I carry guns aboard, I ONLY sail the USA and Bahamas, the rest of the world can just wish I'd spend my money there.

Something tells me you just made the rest of the World very happy...

[hellosailor]

Forget about "weapons" and consider what happnes when you do not declare ANY thing that is contraband in your destination.


That can range from pornography, condoms, alcoholic beverages, to meats and produce that are banned. Add in some countries, civilians aren't allowed to wear camoflauge clothing either. That's right, an army surplus camo t-shirt can get you busted. Fishing gear, spear guns...unlicensed radios...

If an inspector finds contraband that you haven't declared, and it is trivial, you may be asked to pay them off. In many places, you won't be asked, you'll simply be fined, placed in a rathole of a prison for a while, and eventually released after paying some fines and serving some time, only to find that you may also owe dockage fees for your boat. Which in some places will have been stripped of anything portable including the hardware that was bolted down.

Now, if the inspector finds that contraband was also HIDDEN cleverly in a concealed hidey hole? Just multiply the inconvenience tenfold.

By all means, smuggling is an old and honorable tradition in most of the world. If you think it is worth your while AND you can get away with it, feel free to do so. Just remember, you're an amateur, and the inspectors and practicing on the job, every hour of every day. And they take notes, and talk to each other.

If you think it might not be safe to be somewhere...maybe the best defense is just to visit some other port?

[bljones]

Originally Posted by atoll

these weapons fed us on ...breadfruit ! in polynesia,....

Seems like a drastic method of harvesting.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Forget about "weapons" and consider what happnes when you do not declare ANY thing that is contraband in your destination.


That can range from pornography, condoms, alcoholic beverages, to meats and produce that are banned. Add in some countries, civilians aren't allowed to wear camoflauge clothing either. That's right, an army surplus camo t-shirt can get you busted. Fishing gear, spear guns...unlicensed radios...

If an inspector finds contraband that you haven't declared, and it is trivial, you may be asked to pay them off. In many places, you won't be asked, you'll simply be fined, placed in a rathole of a prison for a while, and eventually released after paying some fines and serving some time, only to find that you may also owe dockage fees for your boat. Which in some places will have been stripped of anything portable including the hardware that was bolted down.

Now, if the inspector finds that contraband was also HIDDEN cleverly in a concealed hidey hole? Just multiply the inconvenience tenfold.

By all means, smuggling is an old and honorable tradition in most of the world. If you think it is worth your while AND you can get away with it, feel free to do so. Just remember, you're an amateur, and the inspectors and practicing on the job, every hour of every day. And they take notes, and talk to each other.

If you think it might not be safe to be somewhere...maybe the best defense is just to visit some other port?

yes worst case senario,but this probably would only happen to a foreign vessel in america...........where have you been?
please quote incidences of this happening,its not really quite as bad as you think.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by bljones

Seems like a drastic method of harvesting.

very expensive but saves climbing the tree 60-70 ft up

[easterly38]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Forget about "weapons" and consider what happnes when you do not declare ANY thing that is contraband in your destination.


That can range from pornography, condoms, alcoholic beverages, to meats and produce that are banned. Add in some countries, civilians aren't allowed to wear camoflauge clothing either. That's right, an army surplus camo t-shirt can get you busted. Fishing gear, spear guns...unlicensed radios...

If an inspector finds contraband that you haven't declared, and it is trivial, you may be asked to pay them off. In many places, you won't be asked, you'll simply be fined, placed in a rathole of a prison for a while, and eventually released after paying some fines and serving some time, only to find that you may also owe dockage fees for your boat. Which in some places will have been stripped of anything portable including the hardware that was bolted down.

Now, if the inspector finds that contraband was also HIDDEN cleverly in a concealed hidey hole? Just multiply the inconvenience tenfold.

By all means, smuggling is an old and honorable tradition in most of the world. If you think it is worth your while AND you can get away with it, feel free to do so. Just remember, you're an amateur, and the inspectors and practicing on the job, every hour of every day. And they take notes, and talk to each other.

If you think it might not be safe to be somewhere...maybe the best defense is just to visit some other port?

Is this from personal experience?

[chadlaroche]

Where are condoms contraband ?

[atoll]

Originally Posted by chadlaroche

Where are condoms contraband ?

italy........and the popes a catholic

[SouthernHiker]

I'm not a cruiser yet, but I do remember reading about some poor sailor in Mexico that brought a pistol with caliber higher than was allowed (he said noonsite didn't mention any limitations on limits of pistol size, and so he just didn't know. Apparently, he declared it, and ended up in a Mexican jail for a few weeks. I know I saw it on this site, but can't remember where?

That's not advice one way or another, just make sure you know the regs.

Originally Posted by Maineiac_sailor

Im sure that their are a number of threads on the topic of weapons, specifically firearms aboard cruising boats. I know that their are some hassels with clearing in when carrying an arsenal. but after reading about the canadian sailor who was murdered off the coast of honduras, i cant help but think about personal protection.

I know not declaring a weapon can get you in some serious trouble in parts of the world, so is it better to declare? not declare? do they hold the weapon until you clear out?

Any first hand experience, please share your thoughts.

I know reeds nautical almanac has immigration rules, associated with firearms.

Id love to hear some thoughts on the topic. or other ways to defend yourself aboard? go for the slocom approach w/ carpet tacks on the deck?

[RTB]

As a cruiser entering a foreign port, it is in your best interest to know the laws of that country. Don't enter Mexico with anything larger than a .38 even if you declare it - Noonsite: Declare your Firearm or Face Jail

Gun licensing and legislation for Mexican citizens
[edit] Ley Federal de Armas de Fuego y Explosivos (Federal Law of Firearms and Explosives)[3]


Generally, citizens are restricted by law to:

• pistolas (handguns) of .380 Auto or .38 Special revolvers or smaller in either case except the .357 Magnum, (357 SIG) or 9x19mm Parabellum
• escopetas (shotguns) of 12 gauge or smaller, with barrels longer than 25 inches, and
• rifles (rifles) bolt action and semi-auto.

Handguns in calibers bigger than those mentioned above are forbidden from private ownership.
Examples of firearms that are legal for citizens to own include .380 ACP pistols, .38 Special revolvers, 12 gauge shotguns (no short-barreled shotguns are allowed) and rifles in any caliber with exceptions such as .30 Carbine, 7mm and 7.62 mm Carbines.
Permits for the transportation and use of such non-military caliber firearms are issued for one year terms by SEDENA (Secretaría de la Defensa Nacional) and may be applied for up to 10 firearms, total, for each designated and planned use that is legally authorized. These uses may include hunting or shooting at a club or national competition. Permits are very easy to obtain, but may be only obtained by citizens belonging to a shooting club.
There is only one legally authorized retail outlet in Mexico City: UCAM (Unidad de Comercialización de Armamento y Municiones), run by the Army and able to sell firearms. It is owned by, and is part of, the government. Although there is no legal limit on how many firearms an individual can own, UCAM sells one hand gun for home protection and nine more for shooting and/or hunting. Once any individual has purchased ten firearms from the only retail governmental outlet, he cannot get a permit to buy any more. However, private party sales are legal and are largely uncontrolled, and wealthy gun-collecting citizens thus can legally buy more firearms from other private owners.
Collector permits, somewhat analogous to the FFL Category 03 Curio & Relic permits issued in the United States, are easy to obtain from the Mexican Government and allow the ownership of a wide range of firearms, even including military firearms. For those holding collector permits, regular visits by the local military authority to inspect the storage location to make sure it has the necessary security measures to avoid the guns being stolen are a recurring fact of life.
CCW licenses are issued but are hard to obtain for anyone not wealthy and without political connections. In the event that an application is denied, the denial may theoretically be appealed at a District Court, but this never occurs in practice. Prior to 2002, CCW licenses could be obtained authorizing military caliber pistols. However, these CCW licenses were all cancelled, and re-issued to authorize only up to .380 ACP caliber pistolas.
Transportation licenses are required for transporting guns. Transportation must be with the firearm unloaded and in a case. There are no public shooting ranges such as in the U.S. and other countries.

BUT: Gun licensing and legislation for US citizens, and citizens from other countries
Article 27 of Ley Federal de Armas de Fuego y Explosivos states the following about firearms possession by non-citizens:
Artículo 27: A los extranjeros sólo se les podrá autorizar la portación de armas cuando, además de satisfacer los requisitos señalados en el artículo anterior, acrediten su calidad de inmigrados, salvo el caso del permiso de licencia temporal para turistas con fines deportivos.Article 27: The right to bear arms will only be authorized for foreigners when, in addition to satisfying the requirements indicated in the previous article, they accredit their status of "Inmigrados" [equivalent to permanent residents], except in the case of temporary license permits for tourists with sports-related intentions.The US Department of State warns US citizens against taking any firearm or ammunition into Mexico without prior written authorization from the Mexican authorities. Entering Mexico with a firearm, or even a single round of ammunition, carries a penalty of up to five years in prison, even if the firearm or ammunition is taken into the country unintentionally.[4]

This past May, I was crewing on a boat heading to Panama. Unfortunately, we were short on diesel and the wind uncooperative. Colombia was our nearest port. The captain threw 2 handguns in the Caribbean, not knowing what kind of reception we might have. Good move. Not worth the risks. You would be an idiot to hide a weapon, or anything else illegal, in a foreign port. It is your responsibility to know the laws.