COLREGS - vessel under oars

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by foggysail

......

EDIT: All boats 40' and greater must have...required a copy onboard. I am into my second book to stay with the latest revision.

Sorry but this is simply not true.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by foggysail

There is no question...at least to me... that a burdened boat/vessel is to give way to a privileged vessel (stand on). I know the rule, I also know too many times I have encountered situations where a burdened believes he is privileged. I continue to avoid such encounters and it is within my rights to waive my privileged status and convey my intentions by various means to the other vessel.

This topic is being nitpicked to ad infinitum.

Stu has already given a good response to this, but I would just like to say thanks for the textbook example of why terminology matters, and how using the wrong terminology can lead to serious errors in what people actually do on the water.

The words "privilege" and "right of way" imply a right or privilege -- something you can "waive".

But Rule 17, Action by Stand-On Vessel, does not give any privilege, and does not give any right, of any kind. Rule 17, rather, imposes an obligation. This is not "nitpicking" -- this is a fundamental point with serious consequences. Rule 17 says:

"Where one of two vessels is to keep out of the way, the other shall keep her course and speed."

Rule 17 does NOT say ". . .the other may keep her course and speed, if she likes, or not, as she prefers." It does not say has the right to keep her course. It says shall.

Rule 17 goes on to explain very clearly, when you are freed from this obligation:

"The latter vessel may however take action to avoid collision by her manoeuvre alone, as soon as it becomes apparent to her that the vessel required to keep out of the way is not taking appropriate action in compliance with these Rules."


But up until that point, you shall keep your course and speed. And there is an important reason for this, which has been explained by several people already and I won't repeat. But legions of recreational sailors don't know this and don't understand it, and some of them aggressively insist on their own made-up system of maneuvering which is contrary to the Rules, although following the Rules is a legal obligation and not optional.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by jeepbluetj

. . . OnTopic: in my marina, vessels under oars are easily "more maneuverable" than powered vessels. (Sail under power or powerboats). It's one of the areas that the colregs seems to ignore a bit. I was hoping this thread would clear up exactly what the rules were (inland US.. Inside the demarcation. Or what it is for the rest of the planet) Ahh, nope. Not gonna clear that up at all....

Didn't you get a reasonable answer in the first couple of posts?

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...rs-190361.html

For whatever it is worth, local rules (e.g. Port of London) sometimes define vessels being rowed as power driven vessels.

Originally Posted by jeepbluetj

OffTopic; On a recent trip over to Catalina, I saw (on AIS) a massive container ship change course about 5 mi away to take our stern. I was stand on (under sail, lit correctly, vis good), they were give way. Everything happened exactly the way it should have by the book. As an aside, it's _still_ kinda scary seeing that massive ship pass by about a K behind us. (It looks like its much closer than it is). Point is if I tried to take that beast's stern, we would have been much closer - the ship made a minor course adjustment that passed it behind us, I saw it on the AIS, and knew they saw us and were dodging. So I held my course. They followed the rules. I followed the rules. if I followed some non-existent rule like "big boats have ROW", I would have put us directly on a collision course after their minor course change.

It's been said a few times already, but maybe worth repeating, since many people seem not to understand it -- the whole purpose of the Rules is to create an orderly, coordinated system of maneuvering where every vessel has a role to play and knows what to do. There are no stop signs or traffic lights in the ocean, so if everyone just dodged whichever way, every time they saw another vessel, then vessels would maneuver into each other and crash. This is why it is so extremely harmful that some people are taught to make their own judgement about what vessel is more "maneuverable" or more "burdened", and then just dodge, ignoring the Rules. This is wrong and dangerous.

In this post by JeepBlueTJ, here is a perfect example of how it is supposed to work. One vessel is assigned the role of dodging, and the other vessel is assigned the role of "holding on" so that the first vessels "dodge" will work out the way it was intended. JeepBlueTJ has shown exactly what would happen if he had ignored his assigned role and made up his own dodge -- he could well have ended up under the bows of the other vessel. You are not free to make up your own role -- your role is assigned to you by the Rules.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by jeepbluetj

...OnTopic: in my marina, vessels under oars are easily "more maneuverable" than powered vessels. (Sail under power or powerboats). It's one of the areas that the colregs seems to ignore a bit. I was hoping this thread would clear up exactly what the rules were (inland US.. Inside the demarcation. Or what it is for the rest of the planet) Ahh, nope. Not gonna clear that up at all....

Have you read this thread from the beginning? I found posts #2, 3, 4 provided all necessary information, clear as day, regardless of location. (I also thought all discussion could end right there - no such luck!). Agreed, oars are very maneuverable but also very, very slow compared to outboards, or tugboats, or fishing boats - makes it hard to get out of the way fast enough, and those wakes can be a headache, so I wanted to be sure what the rules actually said about these constant close encounters.