Best Place to Get a Sailing Yacht Registered ?

[goboatingnow]

The irish register is a peculiar animal, not setup at all to register private yachts, There are proposals to implement a small vessel register , rather lik ethe SSR in the UK , which are intended to be brought into law later this year. This may or may not solve some problems. In ireland the shipping register is part of the Customs and Excise function and naturally they focus on taxes.


If you are tax resident outside the EU then you can avail of the 18 months Temporary Importation , or if you return to your EU domicle, a transfer of residence provision that allows your assets to come in Tax free.


However if for many reasons you want to legimately import the boat , then do so in any EU country, Palma de majorca is good as is malta. This has nothing to do with the country of register. Then you can register even on the Irish register once you have a VAT paid notice from some EU country , the Irish authorities cannot argue.

Note that technically you have to be careful where you intend the vessel to be based, Technical VAT is only payable in the "destination" country.

Note AN interesting aside, is that a vessel registered in any british registry ( full part 1) will be accpted onto the Irish registery. This can be beneficial.

As to talk of wraping boats up in companies, forget it. This is megabuck, and megaboats terrority.

[dupek]

This is interesting and confusing. I am US resident for 25 years (green card) and have Polish citizenship. I will buy sailboat in US and register that boat in US, but what flag should I fly? Does non-citizens are allowed to fly US flag?

[hellosailor]

Dupek, it is very simple. You are a Polish citizen and a guest in the US.

Only US citizens may have a US-flagged vessel. Polish citizens would have to flag their vessel in Poland, and bring it into the US subject to a 1-year cruising permit.

OR, you do not flag the vessel at all, but register it as a motor vehicle in the state where you are a resident. As long as you don't take it across international borders, that should present no problems.

[dupek]

That means that I would be confine to 12 mile?. Could I cruise to Bahama or some other islands around?

[hellosailor]

You wouldn't be confined to any limits, AFAIK. You might have clearance problems entering a foreign port, although I suspect the Bahamas are used to seeing boats with just a Florida registration come across. You'd have to check with them to see their official policy on documentation.

More of a problem if you went to the Azores.<G>

And of course, re-entering the US, whatever visa or entry regulations affect you if you've left the US.

[barnakiel]

With a Polish passport you can register a boat in a EU country of choice. The boat flies the flag of its registration country, not your passport country.

b.

[goboatingnow]

With a Polish passport you can register a boat in a EU country of choice. The boat flies the flag of its registration country, not your passport country.

ehh no barnakiel you can not , the shipping registers are not harmonised and most require you to be a national ( or at very least a resident ) of the register country. ( eg a brit cant register on the french register, unless he becomes a french resident).
so for poland its a Polish reg
Dave

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

ehh no barnakiel you can not , the shipping registers are not harmonised and most require you to be a national ( or at very least a resident ) of the register country. ( eg a brit cant register on the french register, unless he becomes a french resident).
so for poland its a Polish reg
Dave

Poland is a member of the EU. A Polish citizen is a EU citizen an as such can have his boat (and car) registered in a country of their choice. This right may be limited in any member country only by explicit regulations of this country.

In fact, there is no such a thing as a 'residency' in the EU anymore in respect of EU nationals. A EU citizen has the right to reside in any member country (this is one of four basic EU citizen rights)

But there is such a thing as a 'tax residency' and some countries will request you to register your stuff locally as soon as you become a tax resident.

This is also true that some countries refuse registering boats that belong to EU nationals of foreign passport.

Others do not. Register your boat where they do not.

BTW Why should a Polish citizen NOT register their boat in Poland? (Rather than go to the extra effort of registering elsewhere).

barnie

[hellosailor]

Barnie, are you saying, or simply dancing around the issue, of residency versus citizenship?

A resident alien in the US cannot "register" a US vessel for documentation and flagging. Only a citizen can. And in most of our states, simply being there for 30 days (or 90 or 183) may make you a resident--but not necessarily a citizen.

I would expect the same difference in status applies in the EU member states. Simply being a resident is not the same as being a citizen, and the protection (yes, legal and armed protection) extended to sovereign-flagged vessels usually is based on citizenship, not residency, AFAIK.

[Ram]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Barnie, are you saying, or simply dancing around the issue, of residency versus citizenship?

A resident alien in the US cannot "register" a US vessel for documentation and flagging. Only a citizen can. And in most of our states, simply being there for 30 days (or 90 or 183) may make you a resident--but not necessarily a citizen.

I would expect the same difference in status applies in the EU member states. Simply being a resident is not the same as being a citizen, and the protection (yes, legal and armed protection) extended to sovereign-flagged vessels usually is based on citizenship, not residency, AFAIK.

Not quite the whole story- what A Non US Citizen can do to get a vessel US Documented is start a corporation( costs about $200usd online) and the non US citizen owns this corp. and the corp. can own the US documented Vessel

[Healer52]

Originally Posted by Ram

Not quite the whole story- what A Non US Citizen can do to get a vessel US Documented is start a corporation( costs about $200usd online) and the non US citizen owns this corp. and the corp. can own the US documented Vessel

Not quite. From the USCG National Vessel Documentation FAQ:

Corporations must be registered in a state or the U.S; the chief executive officer and chairman of the board of directors must be U.S. citizens, and no more than a minority of the number of directors necessary to constitute a quorum may be non-citizens

USCG National Vessel Documentation Center, FAQ Page

Further, the percentage of non-US ownership must be declared on the CG 1258. I suppose you might have some corporate structure where the officers are minority or non-stock holders but would that fly?

[hellosailor]

Not quite true, Ram. The corporation's stock holders must be at least 51% US Citizens or the documentation will be refused.

One of the reasons for vessel documentation is that if someone, somewhere, takes a swipe at you, you're entitled to holler "MOMA!" and big gray warships are *expected* to respond. These days, good luck, but that's still the reason why documentation is reserved for citizens. Repatriation of standed crew members, emergency medical asisstance, all sorts of things are reserved for the citizens who are entitled to government services and responses. And if someone wants to document a vessel in the US badly enough?
That's right, dump your citizenship, change your allegiance, become a citizen and Uncle Sam can be your Uncle, too. Not worth the effort? Not an attraction? I say GOOD, because there should be other sovereigns worth paying allegiance to.

[Ram]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Not quite true, Ram. The corporation's stock holders must be at least 51% US Citizens or the documentation will be refused.

One of the reasons for vessel documentation is that if someone, somewhere, takes a swipe at you, you're entitled to holler "MOMA!" and big gray warships are *expected* to respond. These days, good luck, but that's still the reason why documentation is reserved for citizens. Repatriation of standed crew members, emergency medical asisstance, all sorts of things are reserved for the citizens who are entitled to government services and responses. And if someone wants to document a vessel in the US badly enough?
That's right, dump your citizenship, change your allegiance, become a citizen and Uncle Sam can be your Uncle, too. Not worth the effort? Not an attraction? I say GOOD, because there should be other sovereigns worth paying allegiance to.

-I’m a little rusty on it, I did the paperwork 4.5 years ago- my boat is corporate owned, I have 2 other officers involved , one is French and while I’m the managing partner I don’t remember having to state any percent of ownership, as no stocks have been issued- but would have to look up the paper work to be sure- seems if they wanted to its very easy to get around it all – I’m able to resign and appoint anyone

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Most of foreign-registered boats I have seen were (registered 'elsewhere') for tax evasion reasons. Gibraltar, Bahamas, BVI, Malta, Panama, Vanuatu, to name a few.

There is a HUGE difference between tax EVASION and tax AVOIDENCE.

Flags of convienience are to avoid paying taxes. Swiss bank accounts are to evade paying them. If you are wrong in the method used to avoid paying taxes your local tax man will inform you of the error and hand you a bill for his time. If you are caught evading taxes, they take sledge hammers to your front door and haul you out in handcuffs.

I'm sure some of the owners of the mega yachts that fly Cayman and BVI flags may have swiss bank accounts, but they keep them secret. They can't really hide the $100 million boat very well.

[hellosailor]

"seems if they wanted to its very easy to get around it all"
Some things are very easily accomplished. You just have to remember, if your documentation status were later found to be bogus because of some such hanky panky, first, your insurer's might decline all responsibility. Then those federal gents with no sense of humor would start discussing penalties and crimes, and a whole avalanche of pain could follow.
When I went to high school I knew folks who would use a relative's address so they could "move" a few blocks over to a better school district. These days, if you get caught doing that you get a bill for the schooling. And more.
Officers of corporations? Are often personally liable for intentional wrongs. And, if the IRS or others declare it to be a "sham corporation" you're on the hook for everything regardless. If they're feeling generous, they'll leave you standing in your shorts.
I know some Conservation wardens who made a name for themselves by seizing "all goods and materials" used in the commission on unlicensed lobstering, and literally leaving a poor fellow IN HIS SHORTS IN A PARKING LOT as his car was towed away with everything else that was on him.


Why screw around for such petty gains, when you can just start a billion dollar Ponzi scheme and pay for your boat registration the old fashioned way, in stolen cash?