Wood vs grp, et al

[Astro]

How about fiberglass though? Does it have the structural integrity of wood? I've only used it in a ccosmetic way generally speaking (used to build theatre sets).

[atoll]

big problem with plastic armchair toredo worm and assimilation by osmosis on a lot of sailing sites.............

[pressuredrop]

the only place for wood on my boat is the interior

exterior wood is great on everyone elses boats

wood hull? are you a shipwright? if not, fuggetaabouutiittt

[Astro]

I admit the armchair- trying to learn what I can from those who know; my primary purpose for joining this forum. Don't mean to "bore" anyone.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Astro

I admit the armchair- trying to learn what I can from those who know; my primary purpose for joining this forum. Don't mean to "bore" anyone.

sorry was not a reference to a newby/you. more an anecdote on the surfeit/mass of info available,that can be confusing for the un initiated as im sure you will find out.......shortly........

[Astro]

Meta four on the beach but her sister was a seven; it got confusing. Any way yea, I've seen a lot of info, but was being lazy. There seems to be a $#it ton of experience here, and I thought I might trigger a series of TO DO list as folks get ready this spring.

[barnakiel]

That's how I would guess you are a rookie even if you never told us.

IF you are into wood / wooden boats - you know how to pick up the right one and then how to care for it, wood is as good material as any other.

Fram was a wooden boat, you know ...

b.

[PAR]

Instead of asking about hull material choices, you should examine what type of person and boater you are. Some folks are better suited for certain materials then others.

Simply put, if you're the type that fixes things as they come up, you're much better off with a production boat or building in GRP.

If on the other hand, you're attentive and will preform routine and religious maintenance, then wood could be a choice for you. You see, of all the hull material choices, wooden construction can tolerate the least amount of neglect before you have major issues to content with.

This said some wooden build methods can greatly reduce the maintenance schedule. Epoxy sheathed, strip planked and cold molded hulls can be very long loved with relatively little up keep, in comparison to more traditional build types such as carvel.

In the end it still boils down to what type of person are you. Are you the type that will get up early and wipe the morning dew off the bright work, so it doesn't break down the varnish faster then necessary? Will you open lockers, lift out floor boards, wedge open hatches, etc. so mold and mildew can't have a restful, dank place to live? Will you explore the rabbet, stem and transom with a pocket knife each spring looking for pockets of trouble, not found the previous inspection? Will you use a pipe cleaner on the weep holes in the bottom of the mast step regularly? How about the simple stuff like keeping her clean, dry and covered when not in use?

Look, there are folks that enjoy boats and there are those that are more intensely involved with their boats.

My oldest boat is 54 years old and a molded wooden runabout. It hasn't a drop of paint on it (never has), as it's all varnished, every square inch. It's kept indoors (barn) when not in use, so sun light doesn't have it's way with the old gal, she's kept wide open so air can flow over every surface. She's clean, dry and looks well loved for a minimum of care, because of my "routine". I have a barn cat that likes to sleep in it during the winter, but this year I wised up and provide the damn thing with a heated cushion, so it'll stay out of the boat.

I have another old wooden boat, a classic 40' John Atkins double ended carvel that's 51 years old. She's cedar over oak and since I recaulked her a few years back, her bilge is dusty (literally). She's in a covered slip and though her maintenance program is more extensive, it's not unreasonable and because of me, the the choice of hull material.

So, if you can offer yourself honest answers to difficult questions, then the hull material choice will become an obvious one. For most folks, in this ever increasing, instant gratification type world, this is a 'glass hull. For some of us, it's not a real bother actually and we'll happily let you gawk at our loveliness anytime you like.

[spiritbaer]

Gougeon Brothers, West System, excellent resources for restoration of of wooden vessels. Lots of good downloadable material on their website, good information for plastic owners too

[shadow]

I totally agree with Par as well.. I know that if I ever did go with wood, it is not only a conscious life choice, but my life schedule will revolve around the ol' girl.. Which suits me fine as when we do move aboard full time, that will be our entire lifestyle.. "boat".. perhaps not too much "boating" cruising at first but our home, the boat will be our lives.. I'm still on the glass side but if we did go with wood, I am going in with full knowledge of what is in store... No illusions about it..

Mind you, I am NOT a shipright so I don't want a half broken apart "project boat." I would love to find one already in great to decent shape and just take over the routine with some upgrades, etc.. Good luck with your choice as we seem to be in a similar dilemma...

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Astro

How about fiberglass though? Does it have the structural integrity of wood? I've only used it in a ccosmetic way generally speaking (used to build theatre sets).

No one answered this question. GRP is the less romantic and pretty material, but if you google "structural properties grp" you will find out about its other virtues. Besides extremely good structural properties, grp is an extraordinarily stable material which lasts apparently forever in the harsh marine environment which attacks and eats up other materials.

It's not an accident that 99+% of modern boats are made of it.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Astro

How do the composites hold up to water? Also, I thought turpentine put an end to "the worm"? Learning here folks...

Don't know about turpentine, but worms are still a serious worry to unsheathed timber boats. Maintenance of bottom paint becomes a non-trivial issue.

As to "holding up to water", epoxy/glass/timber composites offer perhaps the best resistance to "water" and all of the evil things that lurk in it of any construction. No rust, no electrolysis, no worms, no osmotic blistering, no rot, good paint retention, no delamination (if done correctly)... in fact one wonders why they didn't build the Titanic like this (hee,hee).

Neither strip plank nor cold molding lend themselves to mass production, so one doesn't see so many vessels built this way, but the ones that you do see tend to be pretty nice!

Cheers,

Jim

[PAR]

Originally Posted by astro

How about fiberglass though? Does it have the structural integrity of wood? I've only used it in a ccosmetic way generally speaking (used to build theatre sets).

It's not the material that should be questioned, but the engineering. You can build a boat out of popsicle sticks (yep, it's been done), which by themselves are pretty poor structural elements, but with some clever engineering . . .

All materials have good and bad points to consider, usually on several levels. It's the application of the materials that makes the whole a viable option, the choices themselves, by the combination and arrangement.

When 'glass boats first started to appear, a few where truly engineered and some of these still prized today, but most where just made "strong enough" which usually meant overly heavy laminates. In fact, comparatively most 'glass laminates aren't as strong as wooden counter parts. One design racers in wood often have to carry a weight, so their 'glass production counter part can be competitive on the race course with them. This isn't the hull material choices fault.

Again, hull material choices are less important then honesty with the owner about what they'll do with the boat. I've bought many near derelict boats, just to whip them back into shape in a few years and sell them for many times my purchase price. This also had nothing to do with the hull material choices and many (most) weren't wood.

In the end, if you have to ask, you're probably in need of a Bayliner, not an early 60's Lyman. Nope, the Lyman or Chris Craft will look much better to some, a classic and it'll probably have a sweeter ride too, but you'll be cussing when it's time to refasten or replace the garboards, when a Bayliner will just need a power washer taken to it's bottom.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Me Father used to have wooden boats. Helped to get him through one divorce . and caused the second

If you need to ask, then don't is probably the answer - especially if "requires a bit of TLC"

[Wand]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

No one answered this question. GRP is the less romantic and pretty material, but if you google "structural properties grp" you will find out about its other virtues. Besides extremely good structural properties, grp is an extraordinarily stable material which lasts apparently forever in the harsh marine environment which attacks and eats up other materials.

It's not an accident that 99+% of modern boats are made of it.

Well, the reason "99+% of modern boats are made of (GRP)" is that it's by a longshot the cheapest way to build a boat. Just pop them out of the mold, and the more you pop, the cheaper they become (per unit). It's a production line, and they are 'production boats'.

And while I'd not want ever to go far in one because of the poor impact resistance of glass (hit something and down it goes), there's no question that the cheapness of the build has been fantastic for the recreational boating industry and enabled almost everybody the opportunity of boat ownership.

It's just a pity that so many of them are so ugly - and what's more, as Dockhead says, "they last forever".