To Wax or Not To Wax?

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

How long should I wait before applying a second coat of wax?

When the hangover from the party appreciating the first coat wears off.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

When the hangover from the party appreciating the first coat wears off.

That would be tomorrow... Saturday.

[Tayana42]

Old sailing tradition is never wax a boat on Saturday... or Tuesday, Thursday, Monday, Sunday, Wednesday or Friday.


S/V B'Shert

[Kenomac]

It came out so nice, I've decided to paint the window surrounds in order to give the boat a new look. I'll be busy on Monday & Tuesday. Will take some before and after pictures.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

OK, so here's a list of what I ended up doing, based on the CF forum advice.

1) 3M Fast Cut Plus Compound via wool buffing wheel Dewalt polisher

2) 3M Perfect it finish polishing compound via 3M foam pad wheel and polisher

3) 3M Marine Ultra Performance Paste Wax hand rubbed and wiped clean via microfiber rag.

Hopefully, I'll get a couple of years from the finish. I looked for the carnuba wax locally, but sometimes I can't always get what I want in Italy, many times what they offer is even higher quality than what I'm used to buying in the U.S., and sometimes... it's just different. Most of the time... I can't read the label or the directions. But figured I can't go wrong with the 3M trio... Geez, it cost a small fortune.

Do it at least every two years and your gel coat will thank you. Down there, maybe every year. Essential maintenance and makes a huge difference to the overall appearance of your boat. I have mine done professionally together with antifoul every two years. About a 1000 pounds in labor, for a fantastically skillful guy.

[Kenomac]

Dockhead,

Come down here and I'll charge you just 1500 pounds and I'll put your professional to shame... he'll never show his face in the shipyard again.

1. Compond entire hull 2 full days. 3M Fast cut using wool disk

2. Repair hundreds of gel coat scratches 2 full days

3. Polish hull 2 full days. 3M Polish and wool polishing disk

4. Wax and hand buff hull two coats... 2 very tough full days. 3M Marine paste wax.

Your pro doesn't do that for 1000 pounds.... And that's just the hull.

I start the windows tomorrow along with anti foul paint, and the deck fiberglass mid week.

Three years ago at Fox's shipyard in Ipswich, I paid some shipyard knucklehead 1000 pounds, and all he did was rub on some liquid wax, and then buff off most of it using a polisher... The shine lasted until I anchored next to you in Guernsey.... and just long enough for him to cash the check.... about a week.

Now, I think the key to a lasting finish is removing all the surface scratches and oxidation, then applying multiple layers of wax. Sure, shortcuts can be taken like the maroon in England took, but then all he was basically doing...... is polishing a turd. He didn't take care of any of the underlying issues.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

but then all he was basically doing...... is polishing a turd. He didn't take care of any of the underlying issues.

Your boat is a turd?

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by weavis

Your boat is a turd?

The existing finish at the time hadn't been cleaned or waxed in more than six years. So he basically polished a turd-like finish which lasted only a week.

I was around the English shipyard long enough to figure out how "the game" is played. The guys in the shipyard are your best friends.... all smiles when they promise you the "absolute best service money can buy." But then as soon as you're back is turned.... they're off to the local pub to tell their buddies how they've cheated another "dumb yank." They even do it to each other.

Then the problem becomes... they've got your boat, and they won't launch it until you pay the bill. I was never so glad to leave a shipyard.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

The existing finish at the time hadn't been cleaned or waxed in more than six years. So he basically polished a turd-like finish which lasted only a week.

I was around the English shipyard long enough to figure out how "the game" is played. The guys in the shipyard are your best friends.... all smiles when they promise you the "absolute best service money can buy." But then as soon as you're back is turned.... they're off to the local pub to tell their buddies how they've cheated another "dumb yank." They even do it to each other.

Then the problem becomes... they've got your boat, and they won't launch it until you pay the bill. I was never so glad to leave a shipyard.

Minaret posted a pro mix of compound/wax stuff which he uses. I cant find the reference but if asked he will give it again.

The problem is that what you are doing is NOT a standard cut/compound and wax. A business cannot exist on one boat a week. If an individual wants to do it thats fine, good luck to them but I have to question the profitability of it over a good cut and wax. My boat would last 15 months in Florida easily. Compound/T-Cut/Wax and seal. I also had foam Gelcoat cleaners for spot marks in between.

If you keep on top of this now, it will last you 2 seasons, same as mine. With the right products and proper buffers, it all comes out good. But then I buff my boats 2 x a year because I like the shine.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

The existing finish at the time hadn't been cleaned or waxed in more than six years. So he basically polished a turd-like finish which lasted only a week.

I was around the English shipyard long enough to figure out how "the game" is played. The guys in the shipyard are your best friends.... all smiles when they promise you the "absolute best service money can buy." But then as soon as you're back is turned.... they're off to the local pub to tell their buddies how they've cheated another "dumb yank." They even do it to each other.

Then the problem becomes... they've got your boat, and they won't launch it until you pay the bill. I was never so glad to leave a shipyard.

To be fair to the English yard, if you were working eight hour days (they were probably longer, right?) you currently have approximately 64 hours in it. At yard rates, with materials, this would be over $6000.00. If the yard had asked you for 6k for a buff job, what would your response have been? I run into this all the time. Customers in this industry are gun shy from being burned too many times. Even when they do get into a good yard, this often causes them to shoot themselves in the foot. If you're not willing to pay to have it done properly and well, then it will be done quick and cheap. Do you feel it would be fair for them to put in 64 hours for only a grand? You get what you pay for. I often try to talk owners of older boats into restoring gelcoat topsides. It's easier to get them to spring for a full paint job, which costs several times as much. Too much lack of knowledge out there, there's no perception of value. Often when I run the numbers for a client, they decide on a quick and dirty cleaner wax instead of the full process. I'm sure some of them complain about the longevity later, too. IMO, the long and the short of it is, develop a relationship with a reputable yard. Trust is everything. Short of this, don't go to a yard for buffing/polishing. Yard rates are too high for this, there is too much infrastructure and overhead. Use a business which only does mobile polishing. They have much lower overheads and rates are usually half or less than a yard rate. This allows them to spend the time required for a thorough job without charging an astronomical amount. Obviously, as in any business, you can get screwed this way too. But your odds are much better. Do your research, and you'll find you can get good results this way in many places. Of course, the best results will always be obtained by doing it yourself. Nobody else cares about your boat as much as you do, and a pro will be working to a deadline. Unless you wrote him a blank check! Just felt the need to play Devil's Advocate a bit here, Ken....

[sesmith]

Originally Posted by zboss

What about rejex? Is there a verdict?

I tried it last year. I did the transom only with rejex. I wasn't impressed. The waxed areas held up better. I also tried Presta marine wax last year. It looked great, but didn't hold up like Collinite. Back to Collinite fleet paste wax again this year.

On the poliglow thing, I'm strongly in the buff and wax camp, but maybe only cause I'm a creature of habit, and I removed Poliglow from our boat when we bought it, and went back to wax. It was a LOT of work to get rid of the poliglow and bring the hull back, even on a hull like ours that was maintained pretty well by its prior owners. Poliglow does work. One of my dock neighbors just uses acrylic floor wax on his boat and it looks good too. The difference for me is that the Poliglow looks good on a boat, but a good buff and wax job just pops, when you see it. Whether it's worth the work???

[Kenomac]

Minaret,

I agree with your assessment 100%, but there was other underhanded stuff that went on in that yard. But it would take up an entire thread to elaborate.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Minaret,

I agree with your assessment 100%, but there was other underhanded stuff that went on in that yard. But it would take up an entire thread to elaborate.

Sorry you got caught up in that. Amazing how often it's the only option.



On the original topic, good paste wax is an excellent option that provides a certain look which can't be reproduced any other way. However, it does eventually yellow, and some forms of dirt/soot can stick to it. A more maintenance free way is to go with a poly wax. I like Awlcare. Very similar results. It's very much like comparing traditional varnish with clear LPU. Varnish has more depth and a certain amber hue which LPU can't match. LPU is crystal clear and super glossy. Apples and oranges. Similarly, paste wax has depth and a certain type of gloss. Poly wax is brighter but doesn't have the same depth that multiple coats of paste wax can give. But it's much less maintenance. It lasts longer, doesn't yellow, and isn't "sticky" at all.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by MarkSF

Fresh or salt water? I thought salt water was reasonably safe, too conductive.

Fresh. But, it still gives me the heebie jeebies to see anyone doing anything like that, in any kind of water.

[Kenomac]

Here's a follow up post after one year. Upon returning to the Shipyard in Sardinia, the hull retained its shine nearly 100%. Most people probably wouldn't touch it, but since I want to keep it this way and not go through the hard week of labor I did last season, I'm cleaning it up and putting on two follow up coats of 3M Marine paste wax.

All it took to clean up the hull, was a quick cleaning using my Dewalt polisher and some soapy water... No compound. But I did actually use a little compound at the waterline to make the job go quicker. It took me 10 hours total to clean, wax and buff the first coat, all done by hand, then five additional hours for the second coat and hand buff.

The boat looks new again!