To Teak or not to Teak... that is the Question

[HansSolo]

Originally Posted by jgbrown

Beautiful work! Only a weeks labour? Forget a zero on that?. If you can do all that in a week, I'm in awe, how did you manage it?! I've been following the blog for a while, very impressed, and a little jealous, lovely boat.

Thanks for all of the complements JG!

I may have been misleading before though. It did take us 78 hours of actual physical labor, however that was spread out over the course of a month and a half due to weather windows, cure times, etc (we tackled other projects in the down time). We also invested around 25 hours in meticulous planing. This not only saved us time in the long run but also money by allowing us to reduce our teak wastage to around 5ft total (bought 480ft used 474.66ft).

[The Garbone]

Mmm, gotta love a teak deck. It brings up images of a bluejacket with a bucket and a brick.

A few weeks ago I went and took a look at a boat that had a teak decks added about 20 years ago. Deck was solid uncored and the owner stated the water intrusion was not because of the 3000 screws in the deck.

I however have my doubts.

[MARC D]

Originally Posted by mrohr

Teak decks are beautiful and aesthetics count heavily for me in certain endeavors, and sailing is certainly one. That said, would not buy a boat with teak decks because the aesthetics would be trumped by the down side of maintenance and weight etc.

To my knowledge, there is NO maintenance to be done on a teak deck. This wood takes care of itself.
Fish blood stains, diesel spills, acid spill, teak will handle about anything that can happen on a boat. Except fire!

Just add water and your deck will be fine.

Marc

[ssanzone]

that is crazy... i asked these excact questions when making my decision. i wonder if it was so common that they now have their story down pat.

makes me a bit nervous...

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by ssanzone

that is crazy... i asked these excact questions when making my decision. i wonder if it was so common that they now have their story down pat.

makes me a bit nervous...

There is some maintenance required which can't be ignored. I'm half way through completely refinishing our teak deck with will take me at least 2 months to accomplish. The past owner had left the boat out in the damp, rainy English weather for five years without doing any maintenance which resulted in a deck heavily grooved with raised grain, looking like it had been repeatedly pressure washed. Since our deck is 100% epoxy applied without a single screw, there was no water issue regarding leaks. But the deck had worn down to the point where I need to cut all the grooves again and chisel out the wood. The portions I've finished look just like a new deck on a new Oyster, but I have lots of experience in woodworking. If you don't have the skills... don't try it.

Maintenance:
Without any maintenance, teak will build up a dead layer of wood on the top, grey in color which will act like a sponge at collecting fresh water which will accelerate the destruction of the wood. This layer needs to be removed periodically via very light sanding or a teak brightener cleaner otherwise the oils in the wood itself will not be able to repel water. Fresh water will ruin the teak. Salt water seems to be good for the teak. So I wash the teak decks (no scrubbing just throw on the water) at least once a week and will do an annual clean using the teak brightener and lightly sand the few areas which need a little more attention.... hoping to make this project last the next 20 years.

it only took about 5 years of neglect to almost fatally ruin our decks, but there's nothing better looking or more practical than a new teak deck.... they just take some minimal care and attention.

Ken

[poiu]

There is some maintenance required which can't be ignored. I'm half way through completely refinishing our teak deck with will take me at least 2 months to accomplish. The past owner had left the boat out in the damp, rainy English weather for five years without doing any maintenance which resulted in a deck heavily grooved with raised grain, looking like it had been repeatedly pressure washed. Since our deck is 100% epoxy applied without a single screw, there was no water issue regarding leaks. But the deck had worn down to the point where I need to cut all the grooves again and chisel out the wood. The portions I've finished look just like a new deck on a new Oyster, but I have lots of experience in woodworking. If you don't have the skills... don't try it.

Maintenance:
Without any maintenance, teak will build up a dead layer of wood on the top, grey in color which will act like a sponge at collecting fresh water which will accelerate the destruction of the wood. This layer needs to be removed periodically via very light sanding or a teak brightener cleaner otherwise the oils in the wood itself will not be able to repel water. Fresh water will ruin the teak. Salt water seems to be good for the teak. So I wash the teak decks (no scrubbing just throw on the water) at least once a week and will do an annual clean using the teak brightener and lightly sand the few areas which need a little more attention.... hoping to make this project last the next 20 years.

it only took about 5 years of neglect to almost fatally ruin our decks, but there's nothing better looking or more practical than a new teak deck.... they just take some minimal care and attention.

Ken[/QUOTE]

We clearly have similar concerns. My boat's last owner re-finished the deck over 3 years ago including re-caulking, removing a ton of deck thickness and since then I have done absolutely nothing. I won't even scrub as that seems to pull off lots of wood fibre. Some of that wood seems to get washed away after a wet passage anyway so it sort of removes itself. The deck hasn't deteriorated much in the last 3 years and there is no ridging you mention. Maybe the Caribbean weather is better for decks that UK weather? I wonder if I really should sand it regularly?

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by poiu

We clearly have similar concerns. My boat's last owner re-finished the deck over 3 years ago including re-caulking, removing a ton of deck thickness and since then I have done absolutely nothing. I won't even scrub as that seems to pull off lots of wood fibre. Some of that wood seems to get washed away after a wet passage anyway so it sort of removes itself. The deck hasn't deteriorated much in the last 3 years and there is no ridging you mention. Maybe the Caribbean weather is better for decks that UK weather? I wonder if I really should sand it regularly?

If I do need to sand an area anually, it will only be a very light sanding, just enough to remove the dead grey wood. When I say dead wood, I mean the areas where I see dampness accumulate following a morning dew which take longer to dry out when hit by the sun. The kind of sanding where I can do the entire deck with a hand vibrator type sander 120 grit in a day... nothing heavy duty.

This refinish has required 40 grit to take it down followed up by 80 grit.... very, very heavy duty.

Ken

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by HansSolo

Thanks steve!

The glue that plas-teak provided turned into a black gooey mess and 2 the pals-teak itself ended up shrinking from the heat of the sun. The company said that they have changed their formula for the decking material because this was happening but that the older stuff was not covered...


Theres also a chance that the Plas-teak was laid down on decks that were not completely dry. Our decks do not have any coring material at all, just solid glass, however we did have osmosis and delimitation of the top layer of chopped matt in several places. Im thinking that the original teak decks as well as the plas-teak allowed water to sit against the fiberglass for so long and thats why this ended up happening (in some areas you could actually see the pattern of the old deck seams in the cracking gel coat) For more on this whole project see Part 1 Part 2 Part 3

This picture is the reason I am, and continue to be, a skeptic when I see any "new" faux teak deck products. once out there 20 years and still getting rave reviews I might reconsider!

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by Delancy

My cockpit sole is cambered which is great for draining water but not so great for walking or sleeping on, a situation I thought I would correct with a fancy teak grate. After some soul searching I ended up opting for what I call "Kentucky Teak" aka pressure treated southern yellow pine.

I know it's not a very yachty looking but for me the decision to not contribute to the demand for cutting down the rainforest was the thing to do. If I were looking at replacing a teak deck I would consider vertical grain treated lumber if I could source it.

I'm sure many here will castigate me for suggesting it. I just happen to feel like people need to change their expectations of what is appropriate in this day and age living on a small planet already overburdened with an ever increasing population.

Teak is the "king" of wood, there is no denying it, but after you quit laughing at my suggestion of using VGTL as an alternative to using teak for decking on a yacht as profane, consider that you can go to either the Center for Wooden Boats in Seattle or the Mystic Seaport in Connecticut and not find a single traditional American water craft made with teak decks.

NG Herreshoff, godfather of American boatbuilding, specified simple eastern white pine as the decking material for many of his yachts. The fact that teak is expensive as it is should tell you you shouldn't be using it. Plantations obviously don't meet the demand. Poaching only increases with scarcity.

If you live in North America there are many wood species that are suitable alternatives such as Douglas Fir, Eastern Black Walnut, Alaskan Yellow Cedar, or Black Locust to name a few. While existing old growth stands of these tress are under threat, they all are available locally, be you east coast or west, from sustainably managed forests in sufficient length with clear grain.

Not only does this mean it is much cheaper than teak, it means they are much easier to work with. Those random lengths of teak mean that they cut out a knot on either end or sometimes both to produce a clear piece of lumber. That means the grain is not straight at the ends of the board which will give you grief down the road as the wood moves.

To people who cry about aesthetics I cry BS. Any of the woods are referred to are gorgeous in their own right, but most importantly, they all look the same and have the same nonskid qualities when left to weather! That is to say they all look like silver wood!

Cockpit in the attached photos is a bit of a mess, we had a dock party last night, but considering what I paid for it was probably less than a 1/10th the cost of real teak, The Kentucky Teak is working out pretty good for me.

[Cheechako]

I made a cockpit grate out of clear Western Red Cedar once, very light weight and almost as rot resistant as teak. It was incredibly cheap to do. Only thing you have to watch is to use very good wood , as you can get slivers off Cedar if it cracks etc.

[captaingregger]

This is an interesting thread for me as the boat I'm planning on buying needs new topsides and hull paint. I'm considering teak but the boat has a lot of deck so it may not make sense for then entire deck area. I'm curious if anyone has looked into overseas boatyard prices on installation of teak decks. Is there a cost savings there? Meaning if one were planning a cruise to SE Asia, for example, might it be advantageous to get the work done there since the labor savings may justify the wait till getting to that location?

[bletso]

floridateak.com sells teak decking planks ready milled at $3.60/ft 9/16 X 1 7/8 X various lengths. (std is 12ft) I have made my own, but it is cheaper to buy from them.

I neglected mine as well, but most of my damage was due to through deck fittings.
http://69.89.27.238/~sailboa1/2013/10/29/main-deck/

Dale
sailboatvigah.com

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by captaingregger

I'm curious if anyone has looked into overseas boatyard prices on installation of teak decks. Is there a cost savings there? Meaning if one were planning a cruise to SE Asia, for example, might it be advantageous to get the work done there since the labor savings may justify the wait till getting to that location?

Teak decks are expensive everywhere... and even more expensive where ever you happen to be.

[SaucySailoress]

Ok, we're in Phuket, which is the place to do this if were gonna do it. I want it because the dog hairs don't stick to the teak like they do every single damned synthetic surface on the boat. And the dogs will only walk on the teak areas of the boat in heavy weather. And I suspect their claws will dig deeper into the synthetic stuff than the real stuff.

Yes, it's comparatively expensive but not as expensive at it'll be next year when they legislate Burmese teak cutting and slash the supply to 40%. It's about 100% more expansive currently than fake! but we can afford it.

Another issue is weight. It's very heavy... About 300kg more than the fake stuff, but we could always ditch the compressor if we really need, and I've dropped nearly thirty myself since we moved on board. Must be the stress.

Right, go ahead, talk me out of it, and tell me why my reasons are crap...

[Julie Mor]

Originally Posted by SaucySailoress

Right, go ahead, talk me out of it, and tell me why my reasons are crap...

Okay. Burma is now Myanmar. If you're buying Burmese teak it's probably really expensive because you can no longer get it because Burma doesn't exist anymore. So buy Myanmese (did I just create a new word?) teak and tell whoever is selling it they need to give you a deal on it because it's a new, untested product.

How did I do?