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Old 16-03-2014, 09:17   #16
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Re: Teak decks fastened from inside cabin

b Moisture meters most certainly detect moisture thru f-glass. Mine is a J.R. Overseas, which is what the surveyor had and suggested. With it I have found all the moist to wet core issues the surveyor found. It cost about $300.00, runs on a 9 vlt comes with carrying case etc. It will show if the core is damp/moist or graduations of wetness. Mike
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Old 16-03-2014, 09:25   #17
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Re: Teak decks fastened from inside cabin

b also note as to the couple of planks that are curled up at the ends, I would take them up, clean them up real well underneath then let them dry in the inverted position. They should straighten out after a few days. Clean out the bedding compound where they came from, then set them back in place, but only after you make sure the core is dry, or at the least only moist. I would be highly amazed if you did not have some serious moisture issues. Mike
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Old 16-03-2014, 09:58   #18
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Re: Teak decks fastened from inside cabin

Thanks Mike,
I'm looking at those meters now and if they are that accurate that is exactly what i'm looking for.

I read that someone after removing old caulk the applied penetrating epoxy and then caulked over that. Anyone familiar with this as a beneficial step in resealing teak decks?

Brian
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Old 16-03-2014, 10:02   #19
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Re: Teak decks fastened from inside cabin

if the teak is currently 5/8 to 3/4; that is about the thickness of new teak decks. I do not know too much about teak decks on sailboats, quite familiar with them in the Navy. What I would do first is find out what the deck section looks like, end-grain balsa, marine ply, some form of foam, etc. what the thickness is. If it looked substantial and not leaking below. and then considering how long I would like to own the boat. If all things are good I would just properly screw them down from the top then refinish the deck, sand, Thiokol, etc. can you see all the old screws from below? You can purchase proper drill and plug cutters from any wood tool shop. Make your own plugs. they are tapered to fit the holes right. nothing wrong with teak decks held down from above with screws and sealed seams. water will not penetrate if sealed right. btw, teak does not wear much from everyday use, most wear is from trying to keep it clean. stay away from commercial cleaners and teak oil. The greying is from dirt attracted to the natural oils in the wood. you can scrub it every so often using spic and span.
good luck there Mate
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Old 16-03-2014, 10:17   #20
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Re: Teak decks fastened from inside cabin

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailr69 View Post
if the teak is currently 5/8 to 3/4; that is about the thickness of new teak decks. I do not know too much about teak decks on sailboats, quite familiar with them in the Navy. What I would do first is find out what the deck section looks like, end-grain balsa, marine ply, some form of foam, etc. what the thickness is. If it looked substantial and not leaking below. and then considering how long I would like to own the boat. If all things are good I would just properly screw them down from the top then refinish the deck, sand, Thiokol, etc. can you see all the old screws from below? You can purchase proper drill and plug cutters from any wood tool shop. Make your own plugs. they are tapered to fit the holes right. nothing wrong with teak decks held down from above with screws and sealed seams. water will not penetrate if sealed right. btw, teak does not wear much from everyday use, most wear is from trying to keep it clean. stay away from commercial cleaners and teak oil. The greying is from dirt attracted to the natural oils in the wood. you can scrub it every so often using spic and span.
good luck there Mate




I'd be shocked if he can find all the screws from below without major work. I'd also be shocked if the deck is actually 3/4", they usually size the screws to leave a 1/4" of meat over them. That would mean this was a 1" deck when new. It also means a 1/4" of material has been sanded and worn off over the years, which means the screws are almost certainly not the only problem. Having enough depth in the seams to be able to reef and repay with some actual material in there is important too. Fact is, this is probably an original deck on an eighties boat. It's well past it's window, and this guy was sold the usual BS about it by a broker and surveyor. It's got planks coming up even. How about some pics?
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Old 16-03-2014, 10:31   #21
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Re: Teak decks fastened from inside cabin

I looked at a Hans Christian 33 for a friend a couple of years ago and was surprised to see that a few deck screws were showing through the teak screwed from the bottom side. The HC headliner is constructed in such a way as to preclude a complete removal to get at the screwheads. Having had teal decks on a couple of previously owned boats, I was surprised to see the inverted method of fastening. Clearly, the decks had been sanded down sufficiently to expose the screw points and they had begun to bleed causing dark streaks around the screwpoints. When I discussed this with the owner, he said he would do the refastening as part of the sale conditions. The deal fell through because of other serious mechanical issues but I kept an eye on the boat and the owner did repair the deck over the next couple of months by hiring a couple of guys who drilled out the teak around the screwpoints, ground down the screwpoints with a dremel type grinder and plugged the holes seating the plugs with a 2 part epoxy. Finished off with a light sanding and sold the boat to some poor unsuspecting bastard with a deck that looked brand new but was only 1/4 inch thick in places. Had my friend bought the boat, my advice would have been to remove the teak deck, replace with non-skid 'glass and have a weatherproof, tight deck which could have been done at less than the cost of keeping the teak with the high probability of leaks returning. Phil
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Old 16-03-2014, 10:40   #22
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Re: Teak decks fastened from inside cabin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Phil View Post
I looked at a Hans Christian 33 for a friend a couple of years ago and was surprised to see that a few deck screws were showing through the teak screwed from the bottom side. The HC headliner is constructed in such a way as to preclude a complete removal to get at the screwheads. Having had teal decks on a couple of previously owned boats, I was surprised to see the inverted method of fastening. Clearly, the decks had been sanded down sufficiently to expose the screw points and they had begun to bleed causing dark streaks around the screwpoints. When I discussed this with the owner, he said he would do the refastening as part of the sale conditions. The deal fell through because of other serious mechanical issues but I kept an eye on the boat and the owner did repair the deck over the next couple of months by hiring a couple of guys who drilled out the teak around the screwpoints, ground down the screwpoints with a dremel type grinder and plugged the holes seating the plugs with a 2 part epoxy. Finished off with a light sanding and sold the boat to some poor unsuspecting bastard with a deck that looked brand new but was only 1/4 inch thick in places. Had my friend bought the boat, my advice would have been to remove the teak deck, replace with non-skid 'glass and have a weatherproof, tight deck which could have been done at less than the cost of keeping the teak with the high probability of leaks returning. Phil



Exactly! It could be fixed, but why? It'll only be good a few more seasons at best. Better to put the same effort and money in to a permanent solution.
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Old 16-03-2014, 11:20   #23
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Re: Teak decks fastened from inside cabin

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
I'd be shocked if he can find all the screws from below without major work. I'd also be shocked if the deck is actually 3/4", they usually size the screws to leave a 1/4" of meat over them. That would mean this was a 1" deck when new. It also means a 1/4" of material has been sanded and worn off over the years, which means the screws are almost certainly not the only problem. Having enough depth in the seams to be able to reef and repay with some actual material in there is important too. Fact is, this is probably an original deck on an eighties boat. It's well past it's window, and this guy was sold the usual BS about it by a broker and surveyor. It's got planks coming up even. How about some pics?
It is the original deck from 1980. I don't know if seams have ever been recaulked. I suspect not. The previous owner had the boat for 20 years and said he stopped trying to sand or keep the deck aesthetically pristine as to not remove the teak once the screws started showing. It is in fact still at it's lowest point 5/8" thick and like I stated thicker in many spots. There should be plenty of depth left in the seams. All of the head liners come down by removing the trim to expose all of the screws.
I like the teak and trying to make sure if there is a way to keep them that I do. Regardless of the decision to either put in the work removing them or to go through extra care to keep them and take steps to fix leaks and secure the integrity of the core it will be a lot of work. For the work, if possible I would prefer the latter. But if after assessing it can't be done then okay, they'll go.

But it sounds like what S/V Jedi proposed could be a way putting many many seasons back into the teak along with new caulk and replacing the few corner boards coming up.

As requested here are some pics
Thickness in one of worn down spots, the screw tips coming though and ground down, a corner board loose (there are two others) and an example of screws previously rebed with life caulk.
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Old 16-03-2014, 11:27   #24
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Re: Teak decks fastened from inside cabin

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Exactly! It could be fixed, but why? It'll only be good a few more seasons at best. Better to put the same effort and money in to a permanent solution.

BTW to anyone thinking that I believe fixing the teak decks will be a permanent solution like glassing over everything i do not. I realize IF I were to take the steps as S/V Jedi proposed and recaulk the seams that I would still need to be maintaining the teak decks. But I would think I would get more than just "a couple of seasons" out of them.
Why would I only be getting only a couple of seasons if I did the work right? A couple of seasons before they leaked again? A couple of seasons before...what would happen?
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Old 16-03-2014, 11:50   #25
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Re: "SEX NUTS" Teak decks fastened from inside cabin

If the decks are stable and the only leak are a from a few offending screw points showing here and there.

Then my answer would be SEX NUTS



Remove the offending screw from below. Then drill from above to accommodate the shoulder of the female nut, screw from below into the female. Then bunghole the deck from above.

Lloyd


Quote:
Originally Posted by b_ascott View Post
It is the original deck from 1980. I don't know if seams have ever been recaulked. I suspect not. The previous owner had the boat for 20 years and said he stopped trying to sand or keep the deck aesthetically pristine as to not remove the teak once the screws started showing. It is in fact still at it's lowest point 5/8" thick and like I stated thicker in many spots. There should be plenty of depth left in the seams. All of the head liners come down by removing the trim to expose all of the screws.
I like the teak and trying to make sure if there is a way to keep them that I do. Regardless of the decision to either put in the work removing them or to go through extra care to keep them and take steps to fix leaks and secure the integrity of the core it will be a lot of work. For the work, if possible I would prefer the latter. But if after assessing it can't be done then okay, they'll go.

But it sounds like what S/V Jedi proposed could be a way putting many many seasons back into the teak along with new caulk and replacing the few corner boards coming up.

As requested here are some pics
Thickness in one of worn down spots, the screw tips coming though and ground down, a corner board loose (there are two others) and an example of screws previously rebed with life caulk.
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Old 16-03-2014, 12:17   #26
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Re: Teak decks fastened from inside cabin

1. Don't worry about rot. Teak doesn't rot!

2. I've been thru the teak decks thing with my Perry-designed sloop, built in Hong Kong. Much thinner teak decks over fiberglass, though, and screwed in from the top in the usual way. Constant problems with teak bungs popping out, leaks in deck, etc., etc.

Over several years in the Caribbean I did everything immaginable .... replaced fasteners, epoxied holes, re-caulked the seams, etc. Finally, in a rare moment of clarity and good judgment I decided to rip off the decks completely. Did so, after removing all deck fittings...big job, done professionally with a master shipwright supervising (not me...a friend).

Then, they put on a layer of fiberglass cloth, then 7 coats of Awlgrip, including 2 of non-skid where needed. Looked great when done about 15 years ago.

Now, 15 years later, I'm still happy with the decision. The decks need a couple of new coats of Awlgrip, after prep, but they don't leak and are MUCH cooler than was the teak. Great in the tropics.

3. Loving the look of teak, a couple of years afterward I decided to have the teak in the cockpit replaced, and done correctly the modern way. I then had two master shipwrights at hand, and commissioned one of them to do the teak. He carefully selected the teak...end grain and all that...and did a magnificent job laying new teak in epoxy.

Now, 13 years later, the cockpit teak looks like new. I have left it plain...no oil, no varnish, etc. Just an occasional wash across the grain with a mild detergent.

As folks have said, you can try to treat the screw-head problem in several ways for a time, and it may work for you. If the teak is really thick as you say, you may get away with it for a year or two or three. But, down the line you're gonna pay the piper. I'd recommend saving up for that day and, when it comes, do the fibreglass layer plus lots of coats of Awlgrip treatment like I had done.

FWIW,

Bill

Here are two pics: The first taken with the old teak decks in the BVI some 18 years ago. The second was taken last fall in Washington DC, 15 years after removing the teak decks.

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Old 16-03-2014, 12:28   #27
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Re: Teak decks fastened from inside cabin

I guess if you are not wanting to remove them, I'm in the camp of removing all the screws you can find. Then, for any what were protruding or starting to, do as Jedi suggests and put a teak plug there. WIth this apporach you are banking that no water gets under the decking except from the screw holes. If the deck is bedded like the one on my Hans Christian... it certainly didnt need the screws after the bedding hardned up! I had to rip it off in chunks! You may already have some wet core, but if very wet , after you remove all the screws you should start seeing a little water below at the old screw holes. Leave them open!. Ditto for if any water gets under the teak somehow. Long term... if this apporach doesnt work out... you are no worse off.
Does anyone know for sure the L44 deck is cored? maybe the designed relied on the teak for stiffness? ... thus the info the OP was given...?
My HC was screwed and plugged form the top.
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Old 16-03-2014, 12:36   #28
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Re: Teak decks fastened from inside cabin

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BTW to anyone thinking that I believe fixing the teak decks will be a permanent solution like glassing over everything i do not. I realize IF I were to take the steps as S/V Jedi proposed and recaulk the seams that I would still need to be maintaining the teak decks. But I would think I would get more than just "a couple of seasons" out of them.
Why would I only be getting only a couple of seasons if I did the work right? A couple of seasons before they leaked again? A couple of seasons before...what would happen?



Before you have to rout the seams to repay them, which is a ton of work if done right. I would go with Phil's method myself if I was going to do this. Those screws have had a lot ground off of them, check those seams for depth by reefing a couple of bad ones.



Use a good moisture meter from underneath first and take a core sample or three as well. Make sure the foundation is solid before working on the rest.
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Old 16-03-2014, 12:51   #29
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Re: Teak decks fastened from inside cabin

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Does anyone know for sure the L44 deck is cored? maybe the designed relied on the teak for stiffness? ... thus the info the OP was given...?
The Lafittes hull is Airex foam core but the deck is balsa cored.

Taking down more head liners I see that the jib fairlead track bolts have rust on them on the cabin side. Which scares me that they have been leaking far more than any of the deck screws.
I am ordering a moisture meter today but now my biggest fear is that I will find saturated core from the fittings. In the case that I need to replace any core does that mean I will have to rip the teak decks out regardless to fix that problem. Worst case scenario I don't see myself fighting gravity to replace the core from inside the cabin.
If this be the case I will be very disappointed.
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Old 16-03-2014, 13:03   #30
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Re: Teak decks fastened from inside cabin

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...my biggest fear is that I will find saturated core...
Face that when/if you come to it.

On cored decks the outer fiberglass skin is usually much thicker than the inner skin. Better to keep the outer intact.
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