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Old 29-11-2007, 21:58   #16
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What type of material is the screw? Is it stainless or some sort of ferrous metal? What type of material is it screwed into? The solution varies depending on these factors.
If it is metal into metal then try heat...if you screwed stainless into aluminum without some sort of waterproof compound then it is all over...sell the boat and go home.
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Old 29-11-2007, 22:12   #17
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If it is metal into metal then try heat...if you screwed stainless into aluminum without some sort of waterproof compound then it is all over...sell the boat and go home.
He just bought the boat this fall.
Someone else put the screws in.
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Old 01-12-2007, 17:16   #18
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Both screws are stainless. I gues they're more bolts than screws.

The first one is in an aluminum or an alloy of some sort. Probably not treated when put together. It's on my mainsheet traveler. I was afraid I'd have to scap the entire boat, now you've confirmed it. Maybe I'll give it to the person looking for a free catamaran over in the classfied forum.

The second is in the deck - mounting a lifeline stantion. there's a backerplate, but it's hidden. I'm assuming it's stainless as well.
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Old 01-12-2007, 17:23   #19
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I just read a good portion of your site.
GOOD ON YOU!!
I think I would have done those seacocks sooner though.

Good luck!
THANKS, I appreciate it!
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Old 01-12-2007, 17:41   #20
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Lots of good suggestions, but there's one I haven't seen yet. This one I learned from the old book, "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance". If you haven't read it, it is a great read, but as the author says, it really isn't about Zen and not too much on motorcyle maintenance, either. However, it does have a few good tips. Dealing with frozen bolts, screws, etc., is one of them.

First of all, one must realize that at the time one encounters said difficult fastener, it is important to realize this: The entire value of your motorcycle is included in the value of the fastener. It isn't a $1 part you're dealing with, it is the entire value of your bike (boat).

Second, stop everything. Take a break for a bit. Do not give into impulsiveness -- you will ruin it and the price for correcting the mistake will run the risk of equalling the entire value of your bike (boat).

Third, while pondering such things as heating and cooling (see above suggestions from others) coefficients, the qualities of different penetrating oils, be sure to also keep in your toolkit a valuable, if infrequently used device: An impact driver, with an assortment of bits appropriate to your bike (boat). Being able to exert an incredibly high degree of force downward and torque, sideways, at the same time is going to be far superior to just the application of torque, which is what screwdrivers and wrenches can do.

I took Pirsig's advice and got an impact driver. They aren't cheap little tools. Fortunately, I haven't had to use it all that often. But, boy, when I have, that thing has been great.

The other suggestions are good, too.

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Old 01-12-2007, 17:51   #21
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[quote=Intentional


I took Pirsig's advice and got an impact driver. They aren't cheap little tools. Fortunately, I haven't had to use it all that often. But, boy, when I have, that thing has been great.

The other suggestions are good, too.

ID[/quote]

I read that book a long time ago.
I did not really understand it that well, but I am not much of a people person.......
I was riding bikes at the time too.
I bought an impact driver about that time.
I still have it.
I love it when I use it.

Problem is, the head is stripped. Maybe the beer can strips and the impact driver.

Remember when his friend had to have the custom aluminum shims for his BMW and scoffed at his suggestion of beer can strips for the shims? Same as the BMW ones without the Pabst printing on them.
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Old 01-12-2007, 18:06   #22
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YUP! I was riding a Beemer at the time I first read that book, a great old R50 with those funky front "forks". Loved that bike, though! Go anywhere, anytime. Not very fast, kinda heavy, but so well balanced. A really sweet ride. I used that trick once, too. Worked just fine.

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Old 01-12-2007, 18:24   #23
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Old 01-12-2007, 18:52   #24
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Just my 2 cents but force is a latter resort. It's clear you can strip the head and break the head off with simple human power. Add an impact driver without proper prep and you just strip heads, break bolts and easy outs with less effort on you own part - LOL.

One thing you learn in trade school, or should learn, is how artful it is to finesse stuff apart rather than break it apart.

Any truck mechanic can break joints apart.
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Old 01-12-2007, 19:17   #25
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Dan -- I completely agree. At Mike's point at the moment, an impact driver isn't likely to be helpful. I think he's looking at doing surgery, especially with that stainless on aluminum business. That combination can get real ugly.

My point with the impact driver and Pirsig's general advice was to try and avoid ever getting to this point in the first place.

An impact driver is best used along with the proper prep. And, my experience with them has been not as an application of brute force, but rather as the specific, pinpoint application of the right sort of force in both directions. When done in this way, it usually only takes one strike, and the fasterner is freed.

Any karate practitioner can tell you, it's not necessarily how much force, but where that force is applied and the speed with which it is applied.

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Old 01-12-2007, 19:22   #26
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Dan -- I completely agree. At Mike's point at the moment, an impact driver isn't likely to be helpful. I think he's looking at doing surgery, especially with that stainless on aluminum business. That combination can get real ugly.

My point with the impact driver and Pirsig's general advice was to try and avoid ever getting to this point in the first place.

<snip>

Any karate practitioner can tell you, it's not necessarily how much force, but where that force is applied and the speed with which it is applied.

ID
Oh, yeah - Aluminum loses and that's the part you want to save - sigh... Maybe I invent a death ray that disintigrates bolts and nothing else - then retire on a boat somewhere - LOL

You are also absolutely right - the artful application of impactful solutions can be completely appropriate given the right circumstances.

Also "jolting" the joint during the application of the penetrant is standard.
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Old 03-12-2007, 05:01   #27
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Stainless siezed into aluminium use an arc welder.but the work clamp on the alloy and strike and weld on the end of the screw with the electrode.This melts the salt and heats the joint between the two works very well.Greg
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Old 03-12-2007, 07:13   #28
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This post won't help with the problem at hand but reference to the future...

When I was working at a repair facility in New Orleans years ago a crusty oldtimer gave me this tip for removing screws, bolts, etc...TIGHTEN IT FIRST! You don't have to move it far, just make it move. Doing this will generally break the screw (nut or bolt) free if there is corrosion. Once it moves you should be able to back it out easily. Doing this means if you strip the head going towards tight allows you to figure out what to do next. If you first try to back the screw out and strip the head you're screwed, so to speak. In the 20 plus years since given this insight I've found it works 98% of the time. And using an impact hammer tightening first is a big help.

Also, if you encounter nuts and bolts seized by salt corrosion, WD40, Blaster and the rest are useless. Salt is not effected by petroleum products. Why do you think they store the Strategic Oil Reserves in salt domes in Louisiana and Texas? Plain old ordinary cider vinegar works well at freeing up salt corroded items.
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Old 03-12-2007, 08:16   #29
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.. Also, if you encounter nuts and bolts seized by salt corrosion, WD40, Blaster and the rest are useless. Salt is not effected by petroleum products. Why do you think they store the Strategic Oil Reserves in salt domes in Louisiana and Texas? Plain old ordinary cider vinegar works well at freeing up salt corroded items.
The salt itself is seldom the main problem, which most often, is the corrosion that the salt facilitated.

Salt increases the ability of water to carry a current; and thus speeds up the process of corrosion.

The Chloride (Cl-) ions in salt also break down the oxide layer that forms on the surface of some metals, making them corrode when they normally would be protected (Aluminum).

Salt also attracts water (Hydroscopic), causing corrosion in areas where water would normally not be present.
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Old 03-12-2007, 09:46   #30
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Just a thought..Check to make sure they are in fact Allen head and not Torx head set screws The Allen head drivers will go in but do not grip properly and can cause stripping
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