Safely doing dive work?

[messias]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Those Americans have their own version, sort of a red flag with a white diagonal line across it just to confuse the rest of the world

Actually no, they don't.
That's the CMAS flag and people use it out of pure ignorance...just because they never bothered looking it up, because his/her buddy told him/her that was the one, or more worryingly but I have heard it...because it looks cooler that the proper one.
The red with the diagonal white represents a diver underwater as much as a train crossing or a lingerie shop sign... so, legally, if you're not using the Alpha flag to which boats have to keep a minimum distance, you might as well be using any other soccer club flag or yacht club burgee!

That said, I can tell you that the red flag ignorance is so widespread that one time I had an argument with the local patrol... because I was supposedly using the wrong flag! Until I made him point out the correct one from the actual official "manual"... to his own surprise!

Even more worrying is that some spearfishing buoys (cheap china ones) come with the red flag! And people who are just starting to dive/freedive/spearfish buy cheap stuff until they are sure they will continue with the sport...and are misguided from day one!

[tdoster]

Marinas don't want people swimming, so the blanket rule for obvious reasons. Cleaning the bottom is rarely an issue unless you are doing something stupid.

Rule of thumb. Fresh water, watch for stray current, especially a marina with bad electric or people hanging lights and or houseboats. Brackish to salt, unplug your own boat just for good measure. Professional divers will do this as a rule.

We use a dive compressor and either add weight or buoyancy(depending on your build) to make yourself neutral in the water, also the best thing since sliced bread are the little suction cup hand holds you can pick up as West Marine. Both of those items will make it much easier.

[Arthur Garfield]

Curiously,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diver_down_flag shows Both Flags as Proper.
I would use both when bottom cleaning out of Marina



All the Best!

[thinwater]

Hmm....

That gives me a choice between the correct flag and the one the local idiots recognize. Like language drift, for practical purposes, alpha has become a dive flag, just as texting is a work now.

[mowerandy]

Conditions in my marina encourage very high fouling rates, and you really want to remove those barnacles and hammer oysters when they are tiny and will easily wipe off. Going under again in the next few days for the fourth time in as many months - oof.
Stray currents - no problem in salt water I think.
Getting hit - pretty hard to do when youre under your boat
Had a rash once, but my exposed skin often stings afterwards - it is indeed the biota retaliating and not water quality per se' in my location (mind you, as soon as you start scraping/rubbing you are swimming in clouds of muck that can easily generate ear infections, so I dry with alcohol and/or cue-tips after.
No flag - just attracts attention, and leads to the biggest issue, which is
every Tom, Dick and Harry waiting on the pontoon above to say "while you're down there mate, can you just take a quick look at my ........" It's a bit like pulling on diving gear near a pier or busy beach - every bastard has lost something and wants you to look for it, and non-divers just cant understand that unless you have a very accurate position, or can actually see it there is very little chance of finding whatever they have lost - I've searched for rings, watches phones, fishing rods - you name it - all unsuccessfully. Last thing I had to search for was someones keel anode, still attached but their description of where to find it had me cleaning half the hull just to locate it

Oh, and here's another thing to consider too. Most marina floors are covered in all sorts of debris which can potentially entangle, especially if you are using scuba. Know how to get out of your kit promptly and without panic, and/or avoid the marina floor. Mine is in fact so silty, and the vis so poor that you cant actually tell where the water stops and the bottom begins. Descending feet first, one comes to an almost imperceptible halt about chest deep in it, at which point the matrix of old moorings, fishing lines and steel cables are usually wrapped around your fist stage, necessitating calm and careful extraction, often by gear shedding. Do not remove your reg in the process, or the exhaust valves may jam open with crud, necessitating an emergency ascent and potentially lost gear.

[Deltasailor]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

I have performed over 30,000 in-water hull cleanings, every one of them in marinas. It's not a problem.

300000? that is 80 a day over a year. Over 10 years that is still 8 a day. You must be a superman!

[Leakie Marine]

Originally Posted by Deltasailor

300000? that is 80 a day over a year. Over 10 years that is still 8 a day. You must be a superman!

I regularly do 10 in a day, best day was 16. I have been doing this for over 18 years so I would have done a few now Average yacht length 38' Some marinas here ban in water hull cleaning however you are allowed to do running gear and 'inspections'. I find that a dive flag attracts boats so, as a rule, I don't show one.

[Downline]

Originally Posted by Arthur Garfield

Curiously,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diver_down_flag shows Both Flags as Proper.
I would use both when bottom cleaning out of Marina



All the Best!

I've been doing commercial diving work all around the world for a couple of decades. The only flag that we have ever used is Alpha.
That said, in the Caribbean you see some of the scuba businesses use the red flag. Not sure why.

[billknny]

Actually, in the USA, the diagonally white striped red flag, and the "A" flag are both used for diver operations, but in different ways.

The red/white flag is to mark the location of the diver, and the blue/white "A" code flag is used by the BOAT to mark that it is conducting diver operations.

In other words, you mark your location in the water with the "red flag" and the boat you left from lets other boats know it has divers in the water by flying the Alpha flag.

The idea that the red/white flag has no legal status is silly. A very short search will confirm that boats are required to stay away from it. For example here is one state's explanation of the rules:

https://www.boat-ed.com/missouri/stu...025_700009644/

It seems ignorance of the "red flags" status is slightly more widespread than you think... It includes you...

[Downline]

Originally Posted by billknny

Actually, in the USA, the diagonally white striped red flag, and the "A" flag are both used for diver operations, but in different ways.

The red/white flag is to mark the location of the diver, and the blue/white "A" code flag is used by the BOAT to mark that it is conducting diver operations.

In other words, you mark your location in the water with the "red flag" and the boat you left from lets other boats know it has divers in the water by flying the Alpha flag.

The idea that the red/white flag has no legal status is silly. A very short search will confirm that boats are required to stay away from it. For example here is one state's explanation of the rules:

https://www.boat-ed.com/missouri/stu...025_700009644/

It seems ignorance of the "red flags" status is slightly more widespread than you think... It includes you...

I spend more than 3 years diving in the Gulf of Mexico. We were doing salvage work after hurrican Katrina. Never saw a red flag. Maybe it is more a thing with some the recreational scuba divers. We did use flag "Alpha" all the time.

[messias]

Originally Posted by billknny

The idea that the red/white flag has no legal status is silly(...)
It seems ignorance of the "red flags" status is slightly more widespread than you think... It includes you...

Oh... please do continue! It promises to be amusing...
You might want to check the sources first though...(just saying... )
But what do I know... if it´s on Wikipedia, it must be true

Flag and Etiquette Committee but let me paste it for you:
"The distinction that the Coast Guard wants to make clear is this: The Alpha "A" flag is a navigational signal intended to protect the vessel from collision. The sport diver flag is an unofficial signal that, through custom, has come to be used to indicate a diver in the water(...)"

The U.S. Navy
If you can find the red flag in the link above, I´ll be happy to resume the discussion.

[Pete7]

I have only really seen the red flag thing in the US normally on surface marker bouys for divers. Perhaps the equipment manufacturers ought to sort there act out and stop the proliferation of the red flag.

In Europe the A flag is recognised as a diving flag by lots of water users, well apart from the occasional jet skier. Also far more rare to find diving equipment with the red flag and white stripe.

The red flag thing isn't helped with the American DAN Network use a modified version of the red flag for their symbol.

Pete

[jkleins]

Originally Posted by messias

Oh... please do continue! It promises to be amusing...
You might want to check the sources first though...(just saying... )
But what do I know... if it´s on Wikipedia, it must be true

Flag and Etiquette Committee but let me paste it for you:
"The distinction that the Coast Guard wants to make clear is this: The Alpha "A" flag is a navigational signal intended to protect the vessel from collision. The sport diver flag is an unofficial signal that, through custom, has come to be used to indicate a diver in the water(...)"

The U.S. Navy
If you can find the red flag in the link above, I´ll be happy to resume the discussion.

I may be confused with your use of the language but it seems that the passage you quote just confirmed exactly what the other poster just said?

The link he gave was a state website that said in the first line that "State law requires that scuba divers or snorkelers display the diver-down flag to mark the diving area". Is that not legal status? That was not wikipedia. It was the state boater-ed site.

So I guess I am asking are you agreeing with the poster or are you arguing with him. It seems very unclear from your comments.

What does seem clear is that the red/white "Diver down" flag does have legal status by the US states while the "alpha" flag seems to be recognized as a navigational signal for boats.

Jim

[psneeld]

While I ckearly understand the 2 different flags......

One is recognized by international treaty and the other is required by law at least in Florida and maybe some other USA states, technically in addition to the Alpha flag.

If you read COLREGS or NAVRULES, unless impractical to do so, you should be showing ball diamond ball. If impractical the Alpha fkag with a 1 meter hoist.

So I guess forgetting to mention the ball diamond ball rule was an oversight by the adamant rule quoter(s)....

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

I have performed over 30,000 in-water hull cleanings, every one of them in marinas. It's not a problem.

for you working in salt water.


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