Replacing standing rigging. Turnbuckles included?

[jared1048]

So I'm getting my standing rigging replaced at the moment and will be stepping the mast soon. Just found out though that the turnbuckles were not included in the quote I got from the rigger? I thought they were considered part of the standing rigging. Was that a valid assumption?

Are turnbuckles considered a wear item as the wire is? I'm replacing the shroud turnbuckles at a minimum due to there importance.

Anyways. I kinda feel like a kid at christmas that got a new toy with no batteries included!


Thanks!
-Jared

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by jared1048

So I'm getting my standing rigging replaced at the moment and will be stepping the mast soon. Just found out though that the turnbuckles were not included in the quote I got from the rigger? I thought they were considered part of the standing rigging. Was that a valid assumption?

Are turnbuckles considered a wear item as the wire is? I'm replacing the shroud turnbuckles at a minimum due to there importance.

Anyways. I kinda feel like a kid at christmas that got a new toy with no batteries included!


Thanks!
-Jared

Are you sure the turnbuckles are bad? Many good ones are chromed bronze which lasts forever...
They are not included in rigging quotes normally, just the swage fitting with the threaded rod that screws into the turnbuckle; if you have Norseman or similar fittings, then not even that but a new cone for the fitting instead.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Are you sure the turnbuckles are bad? Many good ones are chromed bronze which lasts forever...
They are not included in rigging quotes normally, just the swage fitting with the threaded rod that screws into the turnbuckle; if you have Norseman or similar fittings, then not even that but a new cone for the fitting instead.

Right.

They last more or less forever, if they were good to start with. Like also the StaLok or Norsemen swageless fittings. Nothing funny going on.

[MarkSF]

I think it would depend on the rigger's judgement of their original condition. In this case, he thought they were fine to re-use. You have to form your own equation of the cost of replacement vs. the risk of keeping them.... but the fact that the rigger thought they were OK (and who stands to gain nothing from not replacing them) should tell you something...

[jared1048]

Ok, I feel better about not replacing them then. I'll have them double checked when we start getting the rig back together.

Thanks!
-Jared

[Sam Plan B]

Can you say, "change order". I had my standing rigging replaced through West Marine. I took the old wire with the turnbuckles attached and told them to match it. In a couple of weeks all new stuff appeared. The new turnblckles looked great all shiny. So, read you price quote more closely next time especially the part about what is excluded.

By the way, be real careful when you call someone a rigger. The wrong person can get real angry.

[Rocketman]

I just got all of my standing rigging done from I guy that does this for a living and it also happens to be a person I would trust with my life. He also did not feel that it was nessasary to replace the turn buckels. They are expensive, and I don't care to replace things that don't need to be replaced. He had nothing to gain by not replacing them, as a mater of fact he would have made more if he had. So I wouldn't be sad, or worried, unless you want that shinny chrome, then replace.

[Snowpetrel]

I don't think bronze turnbuckles last forever, they are prone to fatigue just like Stainless steel. I have seen enough broken bronze bits to prove to me the stuff can break due to fatigue. Usually the threaded parts are stainless steel as are the toggles. Saying that they are usually spec'ed with better safety margins than the rigging so should last longer. I think it may be worth considering replacing these parts every second rigging change, also the mast tangs, and particularly tang bolts. Thats one benefit of T balls, they get replaced every rigging change unless you use swageless fittings. Have a look at this picture to see a broken turnbuckle, although I think the broken part is stainless. Staylocs and norsemen fittings don't last forever either.

[Perdiddle]

I was thinking about using West Marine for my standing rigging. Were you happy with the price? (I've a Seaward 22)
Do I gather correctly that you are saying "make sure they know not to replace the turnbuckles otherwise you will wind up with new turnbuckles and a lot of unnecessary expense?"

[roverhi]

Bronze turnbuckles don't suffer crevice corrosion which is what kills most ss hardware. The picture in the above is a stainless piece, not bronze. The old Merriman turnbuckles were all bronze, they will last virtually forever if they are not stressed beyond their limits. Unfortunately they are no longer in business and the new turnbuckles are quite often composites usually with a bronze barrel and the rest ss. Better than all stainless but still prone to ss failure problems.

FWIW, bought SS turnbuckles from a major US supplier. They developed cracks after two years of service in SoPac. The manufacturer replaced them with composite bronze and ss turnbuckles. They developed cracks after 4 years in Hawaii. Tropics seem to greatly increase SS failure, Have seen these identical turnbuckles on boats in SF that are 30 pus years old and still looked good. Bought all bronze turnbuckles to replace the replacement turnbuckles and they are still on the boat 30 years later. On my current boat, have replaced the 6 year old composite stainless turnbuckles with used Merriman gear in good condition. Just don't trust ss turnbuckles in any form in the tropics.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by roverhi

Bronze turnbuckles don't suffer crevice corrosion which is what kills most ss hardware. The picture in the above is a stainless piece, not bronze. The old Merriman turnbuckles were all bronze, they will last virtually forever if they are not stressed beyond their limits. Unfortunately they are no longer in business and the new turnbuckles are quite often composites usually with a bronze barrel and the rest ss. Better than all stainless but still prone to ss failure problems.

FWIW, bought SS turnbuckles from a major US supplier. They developed cracks after two years of service in SoPac. The manufacturer replaced them with composite bronze and ss turnbuckles. They developed cracks after 4 years in Hawaii. Bought all bronze turnbuckles and they are still on the boat 30 years later. On my current boat, have replaced the 6 year old composite stainless turnbuckles with used Merriman gear in good condition. Just don't trust ss turnbuckles in any form in the tropics.

Exactly, if you have bronze then keep holding on to them as long as there are no problems with them. To get equal quality back costs a lot. Mine have lost most of their chrome but I will re-chrome them instead of buying new !

[vtsailguy]

Slightly off topic, but I just an old 74 boat and am trying to figure out my turnbuckles. I am not sure which parts are bronze, the main body and/or the threads. A marina guy said they were nickel coated?

Also, any one know of a easy way to clean them. I have tried everything that can be bought off the shelf in a west marine store.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by vtsailguy

Slightly off topic, but I just an old 74 boat and am trying to figure out my turnbuckles. I am not sure which parts are bronze, the main body and/or the threads. A marina guy said they were nickel coated?

Also, any one know of a easy way to clean them. I have tried everything that can be bought off the shelf in a west marine store.

got a picture?

[vtsailguy]

I'll try and get one asap....

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by vtsailguy

Slightly off topic, but I just an old 74 boat and am trying to figure out my turnbuckles. I am not sure which parts are bronze, the main body and/or the threads. A marina guy said they were nickel coated?

Also, any one know of a easy way to clean them. I have tried everything that can be bought off the shelf in a west marine store.

I would expect the body to be chromed bronze and the threaded fittings stainless steel. You can recognize chromed bronze when the green appears as the chrome wears off...