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Old 30-08-2014, 20:37   #1
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Rebedding the staysail track

Had a few leaks where the staysail track bolts through the deck so am rebedding. However ran into a problem. The track isn't a solid bar but has a hollow on the underside of the track running the length of the track. So the bolts go through the track, into the open area and is exposed for about 1" before going into the deck. See the cross section diagram I think I have attached.

So how do I bed the track if there is nothing on top of the hole in the deck to squeeze the butyl tape or even some kind of caulk into the hole?

I've thought about making shims, putting a metal tube and washer over the bolt between the deck and track the right length to hold the washer against the deck but due to the shape of the hollow that would be a pain.

My current plan is to fill the entire hollow with goop (5200, 4200, other?) and bolt it down. Any better ideas?
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Old 30-08-2014, 21:57   #2
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Re: Rebedding the staysail track

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Had a few leaks where the staysail track bolts through the deck so am rebedding. However ran into a problem. The track isn't a solid bar but has a hollow on the underside of the track running the length of the track. So the bolts go through the track, into the open area and is exposed for about 1" before going into the deck. See the cross section diagram I think I have attached.

So how do I bed the track if there is nothing on top of the hole in the deck to squeeze the butyl tape or even some kind of caulk into the hole?

I've thought about making shims, putting a metal tube and washer over the bolt between the deck and track the right length to hold the washer against the deck but due to the shape of the hollow that would be a pain.

My current plan is to fill the entire hollow with goop (5200, 4200, other?) and bolt it down. Any better ideas?
Mabee a stainless spacer tube and small washer for each bolt, finishing just short of the deck allowing you to seal each bolt efectively ??
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Old 30-08-2014, 23:07   #3
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Re: Rebedding the staysail track

Perhaps, put some plastic, (scotch) tape tightly in the slot. Fill with thickened epoxy so as to make a form fitting insert. Drill the holes through. Remove the insert and then bed it in the slot and on the deck with the compound of your choice. Probably over thinking this, but I would not want the opening and bolts just asking for water to enter.
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Old 31-08-2014, 00:05   #4
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Re: Rebedding the staysail track

Counter sink the holes through the deck. Put a fender washer between the track and the deck with butyl underneath the fender washers. The fender washers should be wide enough to be pinched under the track but not extend out past it.

This will form a water tight fitting held in place by the compression of the track. If fender washers don't suit you, just make up a long strip of thin fiberglass to go under the track to form the same effect.
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Old 31-08-2014, 01:59   #5
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Re: Rebedding the staysail track

Get some J-B Metal Weld, Devcon Stainless, or Aluminum Putty, or my fav, mix some epoxy with chopped/milled fibers, & fill the recess(es) in the track. And then once the putty has cured & bonded to the track, re-drill the holes in the track. Then bed as normal.

Or if you're feeling nautically professional: Grind the finish off of the deck where the track's going to be mounted, tape off the area around where the track will be. Then drill oversized holes in the deck for the track, using the track as a template. And back fill the holes with epoxy putty listed above, at the same time you back fill the underside of the track, & bolt/bond the track to the deck.
Then, if you like, pull the bolts & coat them with 5200 or similar, & screw them back in place... using washers & or appropriate backing plates.

I'd suggest using G10, or a home made version, on the underside of the track, for a backing plate/load spreader, in addition to the washers. That, or a piece of say 5mm or so aluminum, about twice as wide as & a bit longer than the track.

If you need more info, PM me, and or read the section in "The Gougeon Brothers on Boat Construction" about bedding hardware. http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/...k%20061205.pdf
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Old 31-08-2014, 04:48   #6
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Re: Rebedding the staysail track

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Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
Mabee a stainless spacer tube and small washer for each bolt, finishing just short of the deck allowing you to seal each bolt efectively ??
This was the first idea. However the space is tapered and a curved arch at the top very much like the drawing attached. When I tighten down on the nuts the spacer tube would jam into the top of the hollow and I'm not certain what would happen long term as the boat and track work and the tube gouges into the underside of the track and pinches the bolts.

The track is anodized aluminum and I will be using SS bolts. What would I use to make the tubes, Al or SS. Isolated the two metals aree OK but if they are ground together I see long term corrosion issues.
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Old 31-08-2014, 05:21   #7
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Re: Rebedding the staysail track

Had this same problem. Lightly countersink the deck area, and wrap the bolt , at the correct contact point in plumber Teflon tape. Build a tapered bulb with the tape and let it carry the sealer into the hole. 20yrs, no leaks.
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Old 31-08-2014, 07:46   #8
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Re: Rebedding the staysail track

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krogensailor View Post
Perhaps, put some plastic, (scotch) tape tightly in the slot. Fill with thickened epoxy so as to make a form fitting insert. Drill the holes through. Remove the insert and then bed it in the slot and on the deck with the compound of your choice. Probably over thinking this, but I would not want the opening and bolts just asking for water to enter.
Yes, a good seal to keep out the water is top priority.

Thought about filling the track with thickened epoxy, but Pearson partially filled the hollow slot with something, maybe 5200, that I am having a really tough time getting out and am concerned if the epoxy would stick to the goop I can't remove.

That's one reason I'm considering just using goop like 4200 or 5200. I'm thinking that will be more compatible with the remaining old caulk.
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Old 31-08-2014, 07:51   #9
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Re: Rebedding the staysail track

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Originally Posted by Target9000 View Post
Counter sink the holes through the deck. Put a fender washer between the track and the deck with butyl underneath the fender washers. The fender washers should be wide enough to be pinched under the track but not extend out past it.

This will form a water tight fitting held in place by the compression of the track. If fender washers don't suit you, just make up a long strip of thin fiberglass to go under the track to form the same effect.
Now this is one I didn't think of. I did consider several options for capturing a washer on the bolt but all of them require the bolts to be preinstalled and then push the track and bolts into the deck holes. This isn't ideal because the track is curved to fit the camber of the deck so the bolts aren't pointing straight down and wouldn't line up with the deck holes.

However I could take a Forstner bit and make a shallow, flat bottomed, spot to fit a fender washer, bed around the hole with butyl tape, put the washer in place then bolt the track on top. That would compress the washer onto the tape and the hole.
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Old 31-08-2014, 07:59   #10
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Re: Rebedding the staysail track

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
Get some J-B Metal Weld, Devcon Stainless, or Aluminum Putty, or my fav, mix some epoxy with chopped/milled fibers, & fill the recess(es) in the track. And then once the putty has cured & bonded to the track, re-drill the holes in the track. Then bed as normal.

Or if you're feeling nautically professional: Grind the finish off of the deck where the track's going to be mounted, tape off the area around where the track will be. Then drill oversized holes in the deck for the track, using the track as a template. And back fill the holes with epoxy putty listed above, at the same time you back fill the underside of the track, & bolt/bond the track to the deck.
Then, if you like, pull the bolts & coat them with 5200 or similar, & screw them back in place... using washers & or appropriate backing plates.

I'd suggest using G10, or a home made version, on the underside of the track, for a backing plate/load spreader, in addition to the washers. That, or a piece of say 5mm or so aluminum, about twice as wide as & a bit longer than the track.

If you need more info, PM me, and or read the section in "The Gougeon Brothers on Boat Construction" about bedding hardware. http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/...k%20061205.pdf
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Hi Uncivilized.

I thought about the epoxy fill in the track but see my reply above about the caulk residue in the track. The track tapers to a very small width and I've already tried digging out the old caulk. Very slow and still leaves lots of residue. Thought about using a wire wheel or similar but I hate to grind off the anodizing on the track. But if I filled it with epoxy maybe that wouldn't matter.

Already overdrillied and filled all the holes in the deck with epoxy. That solved the possibility of leaking into the core but if I can't completely seal the leaks it will run through into my new overhead which I had to do because the old one had gotten wet from this very leak.

And there is a full length backing plate under the deck. Sorry I just got lazy making the diagram.

Thanks
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Old 31-08-2014, 08:04   #11
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Re: Rebedding the staysail track

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Originally Posted by Blue Stocking View Post
Had this same problem. Lightly countersink the deck area, and wrap the bolt , at the correct contact point in plumber Teflon tape. Build a tapered bulb with the tape and let it carry the sealer into the hole. 20yrs, no leaks.
This idea I like. Has the benefits of quick, simple, easy and cheap (yea cheap).

Will have to look closely to see if this will work for me. Can't easily preinstall al the bolts since the holes are perpendicular through the track which is curved to fit the deck camber so have to push the bolts in after I lay the track on the deck. However there may be enough room in the hollow slot to wrap the teflon tape on the bolts, pull them back enough to set the track down and then push the bolts back down into the caulk.
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Old 31-08-2014, 10:14   #12
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Re: Rebedding the staysail track

Make the form fitting insert as I noted above above, and use butl above and below the insert. counter sink the holes, better yet pot the holes as per Guigion sp? then counter sink. Insert blots so they protrude 1/4
" Wrap with butle tape and press in. Put the tape above the track too. When tightening don't let the bolts turn, Read Compass Marines article. Tighten down over a few days. Tight joint, it can work as it will.
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Old 31-08-2014, 12:35   #13
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Re: Rebedding the staysail track

Chamfer the holes first. Put the fasteners through the track and coat them liberally with the caulk du jour, personally like Life Caulk, and fit the track trying not to push the fasteners up out of the track. Worked just fine on Nicro Fico traveller.
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Old 31-08-2014, 12:43   #14
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Re: Rebedding the staysail track

Just fill that gap with goop... may actually be better seal than if the hollow wasn't there.
You are using 5200 arent you?
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Old 31-08-2014, 17:06   #15
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Re: Rebedding the staysail track

Unless there's a LOT of camber to the deck, you're going to have an easier time by just getting a new piece of track & starting fresh. As with what you're working with, & your mindset, you're kind of installing roadblocks right now.
The above methods which I mentioned, are more than proven, KISS, and make for a quick & simple job which yields bulletproof results. I mean, it's been around for decades, & is one of the prime methods of doing just such a job - as witnessed by it's referencing in the Gougeon's texts & websites.

I don't want to come off as an ass, but I say the above, advice wise, as it's a method which I & many, many of my mates have used to bed genoa tracks on; Maxi's, ULDB 70's, America's Cuppers, & other large custom yachts. All of which generate loads FAR higher than any piece of gear on most things which float & carry sail... including yours. And generally, staysail tracks don't see huge loads anyway.

You may have to bend a new piece of track a bit by hand, and or use long bolts, & let them pull the new track down, to match the camber of the deck. Or, you can do the reverse, & just build a base for a new, flat, piece of track. Unless we're talking about a Huge deck camber here.

If you grind out the goop which is in the current holes, & fill them with epoxy putty as noted above, or Marine-Tex, you wont have any problems with the track. Even if you wind up grinding off some of the anodizing or track itself.
As, for instance, the compressive strength of grey Marine-Tex is about 14,000psi (you can look up it's properties on their website). And there's no way that you'll ever come close to Devcon or Marine-Tex's compressive & adhesive strengths. Ditto on J-B, or epoxy & milled fibers.
So any of the anodizing, or even bits of the track which might inadvertently get removed when you're getting out the old bedding compound aren't worth worrying about.
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