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Old 22-10-2010, 11:29   #31
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Originally Posted by Unicorn Dreams View Post
Believe or not;
He does not have a bilge blower, scary isn't it? looks like time to upgrade to the 20th century
I don't have a bilge blower either......but I do use my head for what it was made for......intelligent reasoning. The only fuel on the boat that is a hazard is propane. If it leaks it stinks. Also the way the boat is ventilated naturally (through the bilge) means that one isn't needed.
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Old 22-10-2010, 12:36   #32
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i hv ehd both-- with and wwithout bilge blowers--now i have 3 inch cowls port and stbd on the lazarete. same in ericson 35. i have had propane leaksin both without any problem after ventilaiting a minuet or two---have had neighbor use their bilge blowers..hence the suggestion..
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Old 22-10-2010, 12:51   #33
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like my old friend in elemetary school did to prove to me the gasoline can was empty .. strike a match on it. of course it exploded cause there were fumes. be careful out there boys and girls
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Old 22-10-2010, 13:24   #34
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  • I've seen a shop vac catch on fire pumping gas fumes. The motor is cooled by the air it is pumping and is the perfect way to light the fumes. Tossing in a match would be safer.
  • Odor is a funny test; if the smell is strong enough, it anethitises the nose. Do not use that test unless you have been out in fresh air for at least 30 minutes. This mistake has caused fatalities, generally in confined space entry.
  • Cruisers aren't going to have fancy tools. They have time and use it to buy safety in many ways.
I work in refineries. I vote for drink a beer, walk around for an hour, and then wave cardboard as needed. Deffinatly non-sparking.

And get a sniffer. Mine has been dependable for 12 years. It goes off for glue and paint.
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Old 25-02-2016, 05:26   #35
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Re: Propane Leak - What Do I Do ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
  • I've seen a shop vac catch on fire pumping gas fumes. The motor is cooled by the air it is pumping and is the perfect way to light the fumes. Tossing in a match would be safer.
  • Odor is a funny test; if the smell is strong enough, it anethitises the nose. Do not use that test unless you have been out in fresh air for at least 30 minutes. This mistake has caused fatalities, generally in confined space entry.
  • Cruisers aren't going to have fancy tools. They have time and use it to buy safety in many ways.
I work in refineries. I vote for drink a beer, walk around for an hour, and then wave cardboard as needed. Deffinatly non-sparking.

And get a sniffer. Mine has been dependable for 12 years. It goes off for glue and paint.
Yeah even I'd say the in bilge sensors are prone to breaking but a handheld sniffer won't be if you keep it dry.

The smell test is bad for the reason listed above and the fact that if after a week of leaked propane the smell will dissipate significantly making it more likely you take a nice deep breath of death and never be the wiser.

In the absence of a blower, ventilation and time are your best friends like many others have said.
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Old 25-02-2016, 06:01   #36
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Re: Propane Leak - What Do I Do ?

Nobody has thought of calling the fire department?
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Old 25-02-2016, 06:07   #37
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Re: Propane Leak - What Do I Do ?

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, TheOaksmiths.
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Old 25-02-2016, 06:10   #38
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Re: Propane Leak - What Do I Do ?

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Take a small shop vac and place it on the deck. Run the vacuum hose into the deepest part of the bilge--extend with a length of tubing if necessary. Turn the vac on and let it run for a few hours, suctioning the air out of the bilge and discharging it over the side. The gas concentration on deck will be diffused enough not to present a problem. You could do the same by temporarily rigging an engine room blower on deck but the shop vac should do it.

FWIW,,,

This ^^^^^


A decent aqua vac has the extracted air separate from the motor - and if the vac is on deck then it draws its cooling air externally.
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Old 25-02-2016, 06:18   #39
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Re: Propane Leak - What Do I Do ?

by the time you have read all this bs, your boat will be ok. no problem.


now, replace your broken tubing with good high pressure hosing. mebbe aeroquip braided hosing??? and keep bubble stuff toy at the propane source for leak checking.
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Old 25-02-2016, 06:32   #40
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Re: Propane Leak - What Do I Do ?

so i have worked in restaurants for over 35 years, mostly all with propane so am familiar with the smell and when we had a leak. worked with a lot of repair techs, did a lot of preventative maintenance (probably the best way to ensure no leaks), even had a large tank spring a leak on the top valve. what i have realized and been taught while propane is dangerous in enclosed areas (such as a boat cabin) the smell will alert you long before its reaches levels of danger. Trust the nose, that's why they put the smell in propane (unless like the commercial says and you are nose blind). Now that being said i do have a sniffer on board, all my appliances are thermocouple protected, what can i say my family sails with me and i am a safety guy. As to the subject, what would be wrong with turning the shop vacs backwards, attaching hose to outlet and "pumping" air into the lower areas of the boat? with all windows and hatches open, the extra air in the area would move anything left, create more air flow and keep any electrical sparks, shorts etc out of the affected areas. The fire department uses large fans to do the same, keeps you out of the affected area. or you could use cardboard..............................
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Old 25-02-2016, 15:09   #41
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Re: Propane Leak - What Do I Do ?

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Originally Posted by Halifax Sailor View Post
so i have worked in restaurants for over 35 years, mostly all with propane so am familiar with the smell and when we had a leak. worked with a lot of repair techs, did a lot of preventative maintenance (probably the best way to ensure no leaks), even had a large tank spring a leak on the top valve. what i have realized and been taught while propane is dangerous in enclosed areas (such as a boat cabin) the smell will alert you long before its reaches levels of danger. Trust the nose, that's why they put the smell in propane (unless like the commercial says and you are nose blind). Now that being said i do have a sniffer on board, all my appliances are thermocouple protected, what can i say my family sails with me and i am a safety guy. As to the subject, what would be wrong with turning the shop vacs backwards, attaching hose to outlet and "pumping" air into the lower areas of the boat? with all windows and hatches open, the extra air in the area would move anything left, create more air flow and keep any electrical sparks, shorts etc out of the affected areas. The fire department uses large fans to do the same, keeps you out of the affected area. or you could use cardboard..............................
Most people don't know this.
When told about it they don't believe it.

This thread is years and years old.
I did a lot of research to defend my statements here those many years ago. There is nothing out there I could find that would substantiate all this kerfluffel about propane dangers. Maybe since it has been 5+ years someone has actually been able to stand the smell (not) long enough to light a match and blow the boat with them still in it (not).

AND.... no one has been able to come up with a single example of any real danger in having a propane system. (I'm still waiting ) EVEN if it did spring a leak. Too easy to detect and remedy before the (talked about but not proven) KaBlooey.

Sure some boats have burned but it is things like a welder on steel boat welding/cutting (torch) through a propane line or some such nonsense.
OR - the guy that wanted to kill his wife and put a propane tank or two in the oven and set the timer for his desired time of KaBlooey. It did KaBlooey, but it only started a fire in the kitchen that burned a portion of the house.

The knowledge of explosions that most all people have is from the movies. And the Pinto. (I feel for Ford being scammed like they did) All faked with great care to amaze and awe the viewer.

Hell, I even had a Bay Boat that leaked gas from the separator into the bilge. I didn't know it for a long time. I put the filter on the driveway and filled it up. Only I couldn't. It looked like a shot-up cartoon western character squirting. I should have been blown up like one of Bond's enemies boats.
And that was gasoline. Another animal that is soooo scary.

Go sailing.
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Old 25-02-2016, 15:28   #42
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Re: Propane Leak - What Do I Do ?

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Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
Most people don't know this.
When told about it they don't believe it.

This thread is years and years old.
I did a lot of research to defend my statements here those many years ago. There is nothing out there I could find that would substantiate all this kerfluffel about propane dangers. Maybe since it has been 5+ years someone has actually been able to stand the smell (not) long enough to light a match and blow the boat with them still in it (not).

AND.... no one has been able to come up with a single example of any real danger in having a propane system. (I'm still waiting ) EVEN if it did spring a leak. Too easy to detect and remedy before the (talked about but not proven) KaBlooey.

Sure some boats have burned but it is things like a welder on steel boat welding/cutting (torch) through a propane line or some such nonsense.
OR - the guy that wanted to kill his wife and put a propane tank or two in the oven and set the timer for his desired time of KaBlooey. It did KaBlooey, but it only started a fire in the kitchen that burned a portion of the house.

The knowledge of explosions that most all people have is from the movies. And the Pinto. (I feel for Ford being scammed like they did) All faked with great care to amaze and awe the viewer.

Hell, I even had a Bay Boat that leaked gas from the separator into the bilge. I didn't know it for a long time. I put the filter on the driveway and filled it up. Only I couldn't. It looked like a shot-up cartoon western character squirting. I should have been blown up like one of Bond's enemies boats.
And that was gasoline. Another animal that is soooo scary.

Go sailing.
I've done explosion accident investigations as part of my day job. I watched a boat blow up at the fuel dock just a few months ago. Another time a guy was smoking a cigarette on top of a diesel trailer and landed 200 feet away (someone had used the trailer for gasoline the day before). Not much left of the truck. And once I watched a guy throw a cigar in a gasoline trailer... and it just went out. I really hate to say this, but I hope no one takes you seriously.

Yes, it does take just the right circumstances. Our systems are engineered with multiple safeguards. But we handle gasoline and propane every day, safeguards are shorted-around, and so one-in-a-million things happen with some frequency. It is up to YOU to decide how many bullets to put in your gun. Taking chances is like driving drunk and then saying "I got home all right." Exactly the same.

It isn't gasoline or propane that scare me, anymore than high places or guns. It is disregard.
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Old 25-02-2016, 16:20   #43
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Re: Propane Leak - What Do I Do ?

with all fuels, or most that you'd find on a boat anyway...............propane won't explode until the tank reaches near a zero pressure, that's when you worry. Gas, the fumes off the top of the fuel is what explodes, diesel - almost impossible to set on fire. Home on the farm when we wanted to start a fire to burn brush, 1 gal of diesel, about a cup of gas.........great fire. I have propane on my boat, will always have propane on my boat, great fuel if you are careful and especially if you maintain.

reminds me of a story, 4 guys in a university dorm thought a swish barrel was a good idea. They filled it halfway, rolled it every day, kept it closed off, not too cold, not too hot. One night, after a few "woobly pops" they thought they'd like to see how it was doing. so...........pulled the bung, lit a match and held it over the hole to see what was up. next thing they know, black smoke everywhere, they are laying on the floor, parts of barrel all over the place, fire alarms going off. and these were guys in a science program. True story.
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Old 25-02-2016, 16:35   #44
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Re: Propane Leak - What Do I Do ?

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I've done explosion accident investigations as part of my day job. I watched a boat blow up at the fuel dock just a few months ago. Another time a guy was smoking a cigarette on top of a diesel trailer and landed 200 feet away (someone had used the trailer for gasoline the day before). Not much left of the truck. And once I watched a guy throw a cigar in a gasoline trailer... and it just went out. I really hate to say this, but I hope no one takes you seriously.

Yes, it does take just the right circumstances. Our systems are engineered with multiple safeguards. But we handle gasoline and propane every day, safeguards are shorted-around, and so one-in-a-million things happen with some frequency. It is up to YOU to decide how many bullets to put in your gun. Taking chances is like driving drunk and then saying "I got home all right." Exactly the same.

It isn't gasoline or propane that scare me, anymore than high places or guns. It is disregard.
All considerations of risk have two factors : the likelihood of it happening, and the severity of the consequence. For me, the unpleasantness of spending a month in intensive care with 90% third degree burns, before finally succumbing to my injuries, is sufficient to be very careful, even if I were to believe that it's not very likely to happen (which I don't).
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Old 25-02-2016, 16:46   #45
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Re: Propane Leak - What Do I Do ?

Totally agree, if you wouldn't do it in your house, why on earth would you do it on your boat? Common sense is not so common, but the fear factor does not need to be ramped up to unreasonable foolishness.
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