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Old 22-03-2016, 07:59   #1
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Placement of Mid-Ship Cleat

I have a Morgan 30 with an exterior chainplate for the lower side stay and upper side stay. I'm wanting to add a mid-ship cleat for docking spring lines and tying fenders (I don't have aluminum toe rail)

Here's a video of me talking through the question and concerns.

Your advice is appreciated.
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Old 22-03-2016, 08:32   #2
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Re: Placement of Mid-Ship Cleat

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Originally Posted by allanbranch View Post
I have a Morgan 30 with an exterior chainplate for the lower side stay and upper side stay. I'm wanting to add a mid-ship cleat for docking spring lines and tying fenders (I don't have aluminum toe rail)



Here's a video of me talking through the question and concerns.



Your advice is appreciated.

Go you have a track for Genoa cars? I have both a small cleat and a D ring slider. I do use a mid ship line when docking but only use it as a fail safe. I don't depend on it to stop me because I don't want to put stress on the track unless I have to.

Second idea is my dock partners put a huge eyebolt with appropriate backing plates midship on each side. They do have an aluminum toe rail but found replacing it was a PITA. By huge eyebolt I'd have to ask the size but the metal has to be at least " and the opening is closer to 1.5" by my memory.

I've seen quite a few folks that use their winches. Doesn't work for my boat but may for you.

Good luck!



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Old 22-03-2016, 08:49   #3
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Re: Placement of Mid-Ship Cleat

Just put them where the spring lines etc will route around things without chafe. They don't have to be exactly midships.
other considerations are:
Teak toerail cap? (It will chafe fast from lines)
On deck mounting is a real toe killer/stumbler.... if not well outboard.
No idea what your boat looks like in that area though.
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Old 22-03-2016, 09:01   #4
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Re: Placement of Mid-Ship Cleat

It's a good concern and a midship cleat is always nice, but not always necessary on a 30' boat. You may be overthinking this. The video was not that helpful -why not take a few photographs instead? It might work just to place the cleats on the caprail--but again, I don't know how your deck is configured in the first place. Spring lines work best when as long as possible and as nearly parallel as possible to the boat. Perhaps you can just use your primary main sheet winches in combination with the existing bow and stern cleats. And as has been suggested, if there is a genoa track, just place a sliding cleat on that. Send photos please.
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Old 22-03-2016, 09:33   #5
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Re: Placement of Mid-Ship Cleat

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Originally Posted by allanbranch View Post
I have a Morgan 30 with an exterior chainplate for the lower side stay and upper side stay. I'm wanting to add a mid-ship cleat for docking spring lines and tying fenders (I don't have aluminum toe rail)...
Every boat should have one.

Please see these posts for the full discussion - how to find the pivot point, placement, etc.

Mid ship deck cleat positions
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Old 22-03-2016, 09:34   #6
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Re: Placement of Mid-Ship Cleat

Allan, I use midship cleats for controlled single line docking all the time. It is good seamanship. I do have a slotted toe rail for attaching fenders.

I would suggest your midship cleats should be well aft of your chain plates. They should be near the point of maxim beam which I think should also be near the center of lateral resistance and center of gravity of your boat. That will give you the best control when using them for one line docking.


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Old 22-03-2016, 09:51   #7
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Re: Placement of Mid-Ship Cleat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Just put them where the spring lines etc will route around things without chafe. They don't have to be exactly midships.
other considerations are:
Teak toerail cap? (It will chafe fast from lines)
On deck mounting is a real toe killer/stumbler.... if not well outboard.
^^^^ +

Regardless of boat size, the amount of rudder needed will determine the "aly" so the "exact" placement is not that critical.

I used the winch on our C25 with an outboard, but wouldn't on our C34.

Here's what our skippers have done:

Single Handing 101.1 Midship Cleats Pictures Midship cleat PHOTOS / Flix

Single Handing 101.2 HOPPING OFF THE BOAT IS UNNECESSARY
single handing
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Old 22-03-2016, 14:13   #8
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Re: Placement of Mid-Ship Cleat

FYI, the wires that hold up the mast athwartship are shrouds. The short ones are LOWER SHROUDS, the long that goes over the spreaders and to the mast head is the CAP SHROUD. The fore and aft wires are STAYS, BACKSTAY, HEADSTAY, AND STAYSAIL STAY. There a few other STAYS thrown in like BABYSTAY, RUNNING BACKSTAY and others.

Put the cleat and chock for the spring lines where it works. Pick a point where the shrouds and any other encumbrances like stanchions won't cause chafe on the lines for placing the chocks and as much out of the way for the cleats so you don't keep kicking it with your feet as you move about.
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Old 23-03-2016, 07:54   #9
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Re: Placement of Mid-Ship Cleat

they make cleats that are installed on fair lead sliders
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Old 23-03-2016, 09:29   #10
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Re: Placement of Mid-Ship Cleat

Quote:
Originally Posted by allanbranch View Post
I have a Morgan 30 with an exterior chainplate for the lower side stay and upper side stay. I'm wanting to add a mid-ship cleat for docking spring lines and tying fenders (I don't have aluminum toe rail)

Here's a video of me talking through the question and concerns.

Your advice is appreciated.
If the diagram is correct, appears to be, put the cleat amid-ships. If you want them for fenders you want them at max. beam and looks like spring lines could go fore or aft.
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Old 23-03-2016, 09:34   #11
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Re: Placement of Mid-Ship Cleat

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If the diagram is correct, appears to be, put the cleat amid-ships. If you want them for fenders you want them at max. beam and looks like spring lines could go fore or aft.
I find that two fenders, just fore and just aft of the widest beam, makes more sense. As long as the max beam doesn't rub against the dock, meaning you have large enough fenders, you end up getting a double cushion, and the one fender doesn't get squished against the dock or rub against the boat.

Your boat, your choice.

More fenders = better protection.

My midships cleat, shown in the link I provided earlier, is nowhere near the midpoint of my boat and it works just fine.
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Old 23-03-2016, 09:44   #12
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Re: Placement of Mid-Ship Cleat

I'm wanting to add a mid-ship cleat for docking spring lines and tying fenders.

When boats are born, they are done on the cheap! Cost saving is a must. I have now owned six boats from 18 to 24 feet and have added two(2) cleats on each side on all my boats. The reason being is that at the dock there is always potential for storms and the loading of the lines is spread out on more cleats than the minimum. It is also always easier to move the fender and place it where it is most effective. What is the price of and extra cleat or two if life is easier... It's me!
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Old 23-03-2016, 10:34   #13
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Re: Placement of Mid-Ship Cleat

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Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
I find that two fenders, just fore and just aft of the widest beam, makes more sense. As long as the max beam doesn't rub against the dock, meaning you have large enough fenders, you end up getting a double cushion, and the one fender doesn't get squished against the dock or rub against the boat.

Your boat, your choice.

More fenders = better protection.

My midships cleat, shown in the link I provided earlier, is nowhere near the midpoint of my boat and it works just fine.
I think I lost my last agreement with Stu. One fore and aft of amidships would be the ticket. That also makes a fender board possible if you are going to lock through someplace. Lock walls are hell on fenders.
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Old 23-03-2016, 10:52   #14
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Re: Placement of Mid-Ship Cleat

I usually put mine amidships.

I added extra cleats at the stern after I had a couple pulled off in St Kitts.

I use the grab rail amid ships for holding Fenders, but I have a West Wight Potter. The grab rail is a very long cleat amid ships.
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Old 23-03-2016, 11:25   #15
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Re: Placement of Mid-Ship Cleat

https://www.dropbox.com/s/42tmdpzaq6...%20II.JPG?dl=0

I put mine where I can reach them from cockpit. See the small line hanging in a loop-that is my breastline & is att'd to "midship" cleat near base of aft stanchion.
I singlehand & this position lets me reach the breastline without stumbling up deck. I put it around whatever is handy on whatever I'm tying up to.
Then I can take my time putting out proper bow,stern & springs.
I sometimes use it for spring.
It i happens to be just aft of the widest point of hull,so it is a fender cleat as well. They are 10" marinium cleats with thru bolts & backing plates-strong.

For an additional fender,I installed smaller 5" ? cleats,using #10 screws,just ahead of widest point of hull or about 25-30" ahead of midship/aft fender cleat above. I don't normally need more than two fenders per side.

On another point,you can see my bow line coming out thru chock,leading aft outside of everything,& slip knotted to aft stanchion. Not very pretty,but mighty handy at a mooring,etc,
Approach mooring until I can gaff one pendant from cockpit.Run bow line thru pendant eye & cleat bow line bitter end to sheet winch.
Boat sags back,pendant eye slides up bow line to chock, ready to drop over bow cleat by the time I leisurely doddle up to bow.
Gaff the other pendant which will be trailing alongside by now & drop it over the other cleat.
I'm old,clumsy, slow & alone often. Necessity .....
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