Osage Orange wood for exterior use - anyone used it?

[cadmus]

Has anyone used Osage Orange top side?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maclura_pomifera
What did you use it for? How long have you had it in use? How is it holding up? What did you or do you coat it with and how often?

Teak is just becoming harder and harder to source and I question why purpleheart would be more long lived than Osage.

[cadmus]

Originally Posted by cadmus

I question why purpleheart would be more long lived than Osage.

Let me point out that I don't doubt purpleheart's pedigree..... i know purple heart was the keel of many wooden ships made in North America. I just never heard of antimicrobial properties or oils or water repellents in purple heart being better than Osage.

The Janka of purple heart is 2520. Less than Osage (2760), and most my fellow wood workers hate osage because it is hard to work with, But i am getting used to it for non-boat applications and it is often very straight grained and always pretty. Osage orange is only a little more dense.

My guess is purple heart had a larger DBH at maturity. This allowed more large components and reduced the % of the basil area affected by cracking when drying it. Just a guess.

[Fence Man]

Makes a good fence post that'll last 50 years, and burns hot enough to warp a wood stove. I can't imagine trying to work with it on a detailed project, as it gets harder than hammered hell when it dries out. Anyone who does, has my respect and admiration.

[cadmus]

Agreed. Osage makes a dang fine fence post. Mesquite also. Both woods I toy with using for the ability to stand up against weather.

[Almost-There]

I tried doing some work with it and I was shocked at how tough it was. I don't know how he finished it but I pretty much gave up.

I was helping a older guy fix his old fishing trawler and it's going to be part of a display on the commercial fishing industry. They decided to use what he called the devil's tree in the areas that see abuse. Well being relatively new to real woodwork it was a eye opener to see how strong it was. But with some patience its doable and has a nice look.
what's shocking to me is how it holds up on a boat that is still fishing. They drag steal cable and chains over it and it doesn't phase it one bit.

If you do decide to use it I'd like to see the results. Everything we did got painted and I wonder how it would look varnished.

[jhulmer]

Originally Posted by cadmus

Has anyone used Osage Orange top side?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maclura_pomifera
What did you use it for? How long have you had it in use? How is it holding up? What did you or do you coat it with and how often?

Teak is just becoming harder and harder to source and I question why purpleheart would be more long lived than Osage.

I agree that teak is hard to find and expensive! My Cabo Rico I'm refitting has a lot of Costa Rican teak and the bill is running up buying teak.

Eight or so years ago a local exotic wood supplies suggested I give Canary wood a try. He said that they use it for railroad ties in South America and had a lot of the same properties of Teak.
Canarywood | The Wood Database - Lumber Identification (Hardwood)

I was building several hard dinghies at the time so I used Canary Wood on my own personal Dinghy and I can report that it has lasted as good or better than teak. I did not finish it and left it to weather.

I have to replace my cap rail and I am seriously thinking about using Canary Wood.

It has some of the prettiest colored grain I've seen, thus the name Canary I guess. However, allowed to weather it turns gray just like teak.

[coastalexplorer]

I believe the Saltana Education Foundation at in Chestertown, Maryland, between 1997-2001. built their entire Schooner out of Osage Orange, to educate youth sailing on the Chesapeake.

[cadmus]

Originally Posted by coastalexplorer

I believe the Saltana Education Foundation at in Chestertown, Maryland, between 1997-2001. built their entire Schooner out of Osage Orange, to educate youth sailing on the Chesapeake.

http://sultanaeducation.org/wp-conte...etoSultana.pdf
cool, thanks for that.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by cadmus

Let me point out that I don't doubt purpleheart's pedigree..... i know purple heart was the keel of many wooden ships made in North America. I just never heard of antimicrobial properties or oils or water repellents in purple heart being better than Osage.

The Janka of purple heart is 2520. Less than Osage (2760), and most my fellow wood workers hate osage because it is hard to work with, But i am getting used to it for non-boat applications and it is often very straight grained and always pretty. Osage orange is only a little more dense.

My guess is purple heart had a larger DBH at maturity. This allowed more large components and reduced the % of the basil area affected by cracking when drying it. Just a guess.

Could someone help? I've never heard of:
Janka, DBH, basil area, purple heart, etc. with respect to wood.

Thanks.

(Don't you just love abbreviations )

[cadmus]

Originally Posted by Perna

Could someone help? I've never heard of:
Janka, DBH, basil area, purple heart, etc. with respect to wood.
Thanks.
(Don't you just love abbreviations )

Sorry.
Janka is likely some engineer's name. It is a measure of hardness frequently used in wood. Teak is a little over 1000 so the woods we are talking about are a lot harder. Janka is almost always reported as dried wood and some wood are softer when wet or green. Harder does not mean stronger per se. Just resistant to deforming when hit. Strength is measured in many ways. Harder woods often ware down tools quicker and resist wear and tare more. Harder woods (when dry) are often harder to bend like you would teak decking. Harder woods are often less likely to be saturated by water.

DBH is diameter at breast height.

Purple heart is a very nice hard wood species that is used in ship making. It has a specific density near 1 or near the denisty of water. Same with Osage.

Basil area is the area of a cross section of a tree. If you took a chainsaw to a tree and painted the flat top of the stump orange and looked down on it from a cherry picker that orange shape is the basil area. If 4" of the outer circumference of the tree are prone to cracking when slowly drying your log (like they did in the old days) then a 4' DBH purple heart is going to have way more usable wood for a boat than a osage with rarely gets to 1' DBH. Same with mesquite but osage is very straight grained and masquite is rarely straight grained. Straight grain woods often warp less. Dense woods often warp less. Oily woods resist water penetration....

[cadmus]

Originally Posted by jhulmer

I agree that teak is hard to find and expensive! .... Eight or so years ago a local exotic wood supplies suggested I give Canary wood a try....I have to replace my cap rail and I am seriously thinking about using Canary Wood....It has some of the prettiest colored grain I've seen, thus the name Canary I guess. However, allowed to weather it turns gray just like teak.

I appreciate this. I will investigate this and mesquite and Osage... It is so hard to know if wood is harvested sustainably. I am hoping to find something similar to teak that is from North America for this reason. Decking is on my mind in the long run.

I ask about osage just because i have a bunch of logs of it that i dried for musical instruments and might never be used. I keep saying it will be bucked for firewood but I will keep it if it can be used for repairs topside.

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by jhulmer

I agree that teak is hard to find and expensive! My Cabo Rico I'm refitting has a lot of Costa Rican teak and the bill is running up buying teak.

Eight or so years ago a local exotic wood supplies suggested I give Canary wood a try. He said that they use it for railroad ties in South America and had a lot of the same properties of Teak.
Canarywood | The Wood Database - Lumber Identification (Hardwood)

I was building several hard dinghies at the time so I used Canary Wood on my own personal Dinghy and I can report that it has lasted as good or better than teak. I did not finish it and left it to weather.

I have to replace my cap rail and I am seriously thinking about using Canary Wood.

It has some of the prettiest colored grain I've seen, thus the name Canary I guess. However, allowed to weather it turns gray just like teak.

This wood is amazing- much better than teak. I wonder how easy it is to find though. On my boat, all the external wood (cockpit seats and handrails) and the cabin sole inside is made of this wood, which is called Araribá in Brazil. If anyone is looking to replace teak, this is the stuff! Have you found it easy to source? It's getting hard to find in Brazil...

[Fence Man]

Originally Posted by cadmus

I appreciate this. I will investigate this and mesquite and Osage... It is so hard to know if wood is harvested sustainably. I am hoping to find something similar to teak that is from North America for this reason. Decking is on my mind in the long run.

I ask about osage just because i have a bunch of logs of it that i dried for musical instruments and might never be used. I keep saying it will be bucked for firewood but I will keep it if it can be used for repairs topside.

When we tear out an old fence with hedge posts, I always haul them home for firewood. The only way I've found to efficiently cut the old posts is a big chop saw with a hardwood trim blade. Some of those old rascals make a chainsaw spit sparks! I've saved a few of the big old gnarly corner posts for possible woodworking projects in the future, although I've just about decided to quit adding projects to my list. What kind of instruments do you make?

[Perna]

Originally Posted by cadmus

Sorry.
Janka is likely some engineer's name. It is a measure of hardness frequently used in wood. Teak is a little over 1000 so the woods we are talking about are a lot harder. Janka is almost always reported as dried wood and some wood are softer when wet or green. Harder does not mean stronger per se. Just resistant to deforming when hit. Strength is measured in many ways. Harder woods often ware down tools quicker and resist wear and tare more. Harder woods (when dry) are often harder to bend like you would teak decking. Harder woods are often less likely to be saturated by water.

DBH is diameter at breast height.

Purple heart is a very nice hard wood species that is used in ship making. It has a specific density near 1 or near the denisty of water. Same with Osage.

Basil area is the area of a cross section of a tree. If you took a chainsaw to a tree and painted the flat top of the stump orange and looked down on it from a cherry picker that orange shape is the basil area. If 4" of the outer circumference of the tree are prone to cracking when slowly drying your log (like they did in the old days) then a 4' DBH purple heart is going to have way more usable wood for a boat than a osage with rarely gets to 1' DBH. Same with mesquite but osage is very straight grained and masquite is rarely straight grained. Straight grain woods often warp less. Dense woods often warp less. Oily woods resist water penetration....

Thanks Cadmus for the great explanation. I've learnt a lot in those few sentences.

[Capt. Hack]

I do know that osage is a nice yellow when first finished and turns a dark ornage when left to the sun . might look into white oak as well . It too hold up to weather but NOT red oak