Nav Station Design Ideas

[Terra Nova]

Beneath TN's tiny raised house are the galley, to port, (a long fore/aft counter occupied by top-loading reefer/freezer, stove/oven, and a bank of drawers forward) and the large stand-up nav table, facing starboard; engine box/island/double sinks in the center/forward. The central sink counter provides barely enough space to pass on either side, so one can safely brace his position and cannot be flung anywhere.

Above the nav table is one very tall, deep shelf, divided in the middle by a cabinet with lockable door. The twin resulting shelves fit the largest books and, being divided, better control the stacks and facilitates sea rails.

Below the table is space for 2 large chart drawers, forward, with access under to pump room; at the table's aft end is space for large hanging file drawer with smaller drawers, above, for nav tools.

Aft of the nav table are batteries, electrical distribution, and com, within easy reach. Over the sink counter is space for the radar display. GPS/chartplotter is planned on a swing-out bracket, so it can be used at the nav table or while sitting under the dodger, at the companionway. The large aft berth, under the cockpit, communicates with the com and is within view of the radar. Between the bunk and nav table is a comfy pilot seat which faces the com, which will have a pull-out mount for my laptop.

[Hudson Force]

We're far from having a pilothouse, but then we're far from having an open cockpit too. It would be a rare condition when I could not spread out a paper chart just forward of our helm.





All these differences in size, layout, dry space and function make our comparisons difficult.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

Beneath TN's tiny raised house are the galley, to port, (a long fore/aft counter occupied by top-loading reefer/freezer, stove/oven, and a bank of drawers forward) and the large stand-up nav table, facing starboard; engine box/island/double sinks in the center/forward. The central sink counter provides barely enough space to pass on either side, so one can safely brace his position and cannot be flung anywhere.

Above the nav table is one very tall, deep shelf, divided in the middle by a cabinet with lockable door. The twin resulting shelves fit the largest books and, being divided, better control the stacks and facilitates sea rails.

Below the table is space for 2 large chart drawers, forward, with access under to pump room; at the table's aft end is space for large hanging file drawer with smaller drawers, above, for nav tools.

Aft of the nav table are batteries, electrical distribution, and com, within easy reach. Over the sink counter is space for the radar display. GPS/chartplotter is planned on a swing-out bracket, so it can be used at the nav table or while sitting under the dodger, at the companionway. The large aft berth, under the cockpit, communicates with the com and is within view of the radar. Between the bunk and nav table is a comfy pilot seat which faces the com, which will have a pull-out mount for my laptop.

I read your description above.

I do believe that photos showing interiors are especially useful when included in threads discussing design.

So, I encourage you to post some photos showing the Freya's design (interior).

[Terra Nova]

Of course I would have included photos if I'd had them. Next time I'm on the boat I'll try to remember. Still, photos would not replace what I tried to describe, even though they might save 1,000 words.

[Pelagic]

Having been involved in Super yacht design and build projects since the mid 80’s, the one thing that remains constant is that design priorities change as the client and team take advantage of leading edge technologies to create multifunctional spaces

This evolution also applies to the Bridge, where in the 80’s, separate chart/radio rooms were often behind the bridge.
Now in the 15 to 20 year refits, we see those areas being converted into Administration Office or a receiving area and the chart table mostly disappears.

For our smaller yachts, the same evolution is happening and if you are involved in refitting yours….. best to also look at what is “possible” rather than just what is “proper”

Still undecided about changing my own chart table

[hellosailor]

"my laptop is mobile.
Please point out the problem with that."

That IS the problem with that. Since it is mobile, it is unfixed, unsecured, and it will eventually be dropped, thrown, or tossed at which point the magic smoke usually leaks out and it stops working.

Sometimes the right place for the navigator is on the high side and at one point I had added a wide chest pocket to my bibb pants, sized for a folded chart. Along with two pencil tabs.

But having a real nav station, out of everything and everyone else's way, with the appropriate tools (divider, compass, references, night light, extra charts, radio, GPS) at hand in fixed locations, so they will always be found at hand in the same place? Can't be beat, if you can afford the space for it.

As to those "Australian fold" maps...seems like a good way to turn a perfectly good map into an accordion folded strip map. Easier to order that from the AAA.(G)

A64, if your crew chief wouldn't give you a nav table, you should have traded in the Apache for a Chinook. Got room for twin nav stations just forward of the billiard table.(G) And the really good pilots can play eightball without leaving their seats or using sticks, too!

[DeepFrz]

If you google "sailboat navigation stations" you will get lots of pictures of good (IMO) and not so good (IMO) layouts.

[xslim]

I know this is an old thread, but no reason in creating new one.

So I'm remodeling my 1985 39ft aluminum sailboat now and one of the areas that I want to change is the nav table.

I currently have (starboard side) a massive chart table, a hanging locker and cabin aft of it. I'm willing to cut the table, make a seat smaller, remove the locker and make the whole aft area as a head / shower / garage.
Mostly I use iPad for navigation (have a few backups) so no reason for me for massive table that just occupies space.
Also thinking on putting in a Refleks stove on the side of Nav table.


Her's some questions:
- what would you recommend as a minimum good table size for small charts or using a laptop at anchor?
- would be moving a battery box from under the table to under the seat be a good idea?
- do you think drip diesel stove on the side of the table will be fine?

Including few pictures.

[exMaggieDrum]

I haven't read the entire thread so my apologies if I am repeating someone's suggestion. One of my biggest pet peeves is to have to crain my neck while standing up at a nav desk to look at a dial or a chartplotter display, especially SSB radios. Put these kind of displays where you can see them (with your bifocals if needed) at a comfortable level. Changing the frequency on SSBs can be a real pain if you can't see the display easily. When cruising and trying to find a good band or correct frequency you change the frequency often. And put the computer or chartplotter at an angle that is easy for you to spend some time plotting in way points or to quickly spot problems. If it is hard to see you may not take the effort to look as often as needed.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by Delancey

How about swing out stools? Seems like a nice space saving idea but I am not so sure about long haul comfort.

Not that crazy about the design, fine for typical coastal cruiser but nothing to stop you from falling backwards at sea.

[exMaggieDrum]

Originally Posted by xslim

I know this is an old thread, but no reason in creating new one.

So I'm remodeling my 1985 39ft aluminum sailboat now and one of the areas that I want to change is the nav table.

I currently have (starboard side) a massive chart table, a hanging locker and cabin aft of it. I'm willing to cut the table, make a seat smaller, remove the locker and make the whole aft area as a head / shower / garage.
Mostly I use iPad for navigation (have a few backups) so no reason for me for massive table that just occupies space.
Also thinking on putting in a Refleks stove on the side of Nav table.


Her's some questions:
- what would you recommend as a minimum good table size for small charts or using a laptop at anchor?
- would be moving a battery box from under the table to under the seat be a good idea?
- do you think drip diesel stove on the side of the table will be fine?

Including few pictures.

Looks like a very good nav table to me. Don't put a stove too close to other flammables (e.g. woodwork) nor too close to humans (e.g. you at the nav table). You want lots of room around them. If you get seasick ever you wouldn't want to sit next to a diesel stove when the boat is moving all over the place.

A big table is always better for charts. I have never had that big a chart table so I fold my charts in quarters with the chart name/number out. I then just fold out the area I need. That is rough on paper charts if you use them a lot. And you might miss something just around the back of a crease sometimes.

For a PC I would want space for the PC and mouse pad (if needed) and at least a way to open a letter size notebook on the side. That's just what I like and that will vary by person.

You can move a battery box anywhere you can properly secure it and keep things from dropping on the terminals. You don't want it next to electronics or anything which might not like being near corrosive gases.

Your table is pretty massive so you could gain some cabin space by making it smaller. If it were me I would want my skills to be up to the task as to how it looks afterward, i.e. beautiful. It is usually the first thing you and anyone else will see coming down below.

Hope this helps. Just some thoughts.

[xslim]

What's the size of your table?
Mine is so big that I can't reach the back of it without standing up. Also it is with a high slope so not comfortable for normal work. So I will be changing it in any case.
I don't use a PC, just a Mac laptop, and did not needed a separate mouse for decade.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

I don't want to distract from this thread, but I would point out to readers that this is a design for offshore passages. Many, like myself, cruising closer to shore, inlets, rocks, traffic, etc. would more likely elect to have most of the communication and information devices at the helm. This is particularly true for VHF, radar, sounding, GPS, chart plotters, etc. Once again, I don't want to change the direction of this interesting thread. 'just a clarification.

Since I started navigating with OpenCPN and a computer a few years ago the chart table has become a nuisance collector of junk and if I was building another boat I doubt if I would have one. I now keep my backup charts sealed in poly water tubes with screw on ends.

If I was building another boat I would probably go the built in computer motherboard route with a small fold down shelf for the keyboard and mouse rather than a chart table and use the saloon table for the rare occasions I need to look at a chart.

[xslim]

I would like to have a table because I do software development work, so I would like to have a small "office space". The question is more on how small can I go

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by xslim

I know this is an old thread, but no reason in creating new one.

So I'm remodeling my 1985 39ft aluminum sailboat now and one of the areas that I want to change is the nav table.

I currently have (starboard side) a massive chart table, a hanging locker and cabin aft of it. I'm willing to cut the table, make a seat smaller, remove the locker and make the whole aft area as a head / shower / garage.
Mostly I use iPad for navigation (have a few backups) so no reason for me for massive table that just occupies space.
Also thinking on putting in a Refleks stove on the side of Nav table.


Her's some questions:
- what would you recommend as a minimum good table size for small charts or using a laptop at anchor?
- would be moving a battery box from under the table to under the seat be a good idea?
- do you think drip diesel stove on the side of the table will be fine?

Including few pictures.

For whatever little it may be worth (since you obviously work differently from me), I wouldn't touch that beautiful nav table! The nav station is the nerve center of the boat, and the most important belowdecks space in my opinion. What you have is a good layout -- bookshelf to hand, enough desk space to do chartwork or a million other things one does at the nav station (splicing, passage planning, etc. etc. etc. etc.), instruments, switchgear, and comms gear to hand.

The only thing I would watch out for is what Hudson pointed out -- chart plotter/radar is much more comfortable to use if you can reach it without straining your arms. In my opinion, it's too high in your photo.

Chart plotters are now so cheap that there is no reason in the world not to have one both at the nav station and also at the helm (where of course you really need it).

Here is my instrument setup, which some will consider overkill, but just for a data point:

Nav station:

B&G 8" non-touch Zeus plotter/radar/MFD
Maretron DSM-250 MFD
B&G Triton instrument display
Icom M604 VHF
Icom M802 SSB with Pactor modem
21" QHD high res monitor for OpenCPN, permanently mounted


Helm/Cockpit:

B&G 8" Zeus Touch at the helm
1x B&G Triton at the helm
4x B&G Tritons at the scuttle
B&G pilot keypad at the helm
FLS at the helm
Stalk mount for waterproof Android tablet for GoFree and OpenCPN, under the sprayhood
Second station for the M604 VHF ("Command Mic") at the helm


Where I sail, very detailed passage planning is mandatory (because of tides, heavy traffic, weather, complex waters, etc.). I do this at the nav station, less and less with paper charts and more and more with OpenCPN on the high res monitor. I make my passage plans in a notebook, and I create routes in OpenCPN and transfer them to the main nav system by thumb drive. Even if you're not doing chartwork on paper charts, it's great to have a place to spread out almanacs and pilot books and take notes, download gribs and weather reports, referring to them on the monitor, etc.

I sail in the world's busiest seaways (English Channel, North Sea, German Bight) and collision avoidance is a big job. If I have crew, I prefer to do it from the nav station while crew sails the boat and keeps visual watch. So I can concentrate entirely on the radar and AIS displays, keep notes, do communications as required. I can even steer the boat from the nav table as the Zeus MFD's both also control the pilot.

Having both OpenCPN running and also the Zeus, it's possible when needed to display only radar on the Zeus, with the chart displayed on the high res monitor. OpenCPN has a terrific AIS display (WORLDS better than the Zeus), so it's great to be able to see both that and radar separately. When there are enough people on board, it's also good to double the watch from down there on dark nights, so that you can really concentrate on the radar display while someone else is keeping the visual watch.

In the cockpit, the problem is that for close pilotage you really need the chart plotter right at the helm, but 99% of the time you are not actually standing behind the helm where you can see the plotter. A third plotter under the sprayhood really seemed like overkill, even to me ( ), so I don't have one there, but it's possible to control the helm MFD via GoFree using a waterproof Android tablet, and that actually works really well when keeping watch from under there, perhaps hiding out from a cold rain.

For whatever it's worth, that's how I do it, and if I had your boat, I wouldn't touch that nav table! I'd replace the instruments and comm gear and rearrange them a bit so that they fall more easily to hand, and leave it at that.