Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-07-2008, 02:24   #46
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 976
Images: 6
Quote:
Steel plating weight:
1 sq ft of 2mm = 81.67 lbs = 37.04kg
1 sq ft of 3mm = 122.51 lbs = 55.57kg
1 sq ft of 4mm = 163.35 lbs = 74.09kg
1 sq ft of 5mm = 204.19 lbs = 92.61kg
1 sq ft of 6mm = 245.03 lbs = 111.59kg

1 m2 of 2mm = 879.15 lbs = 398.77kg
1 m2 of 3mm = 1318.73 lbs = 598.17kg
1 m2 of 4mm = 1758.31 lbs = 797.56kg
1 m2 of 5mm = 2197.89 lbs = 996.95kg
1 m2 of 6mm = 2637.47 lbs = 1196.34kg
????? !!!!
I think you may need to re check......
A foot square plate 1/4 thick (close enough to 6 mm) is around 10 lbs
__________________

__________________
cooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 02:49   #47
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Fremantle Australia
Boat: Schioning 12.3 "Wilderness" Bi-Rig under construction
Posts: 558
Send a message via Skype™ to Whimsical
exfishnz
Where did you get those numbers from. Just a little excessive at a ton for 1 square meter of 5mm
Steel has a specific gravity of about 8.8 gramms pe cc so a square meter of 5 mm would wiegh 44Kg

Mike
__________________

__________________
Whimsical is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 06:00   #48
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Designing a global explorer (full keel & steel)
Posts: 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by cooper View Post
????? !!!!
I think you may need to re check......
OK. thanks, will recheck.
__________________
exfishnz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 06:03   #49
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Designing a global explorer (full keel & steel)
Posts: 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whimsical View Post
exfishnz
Where did you get those numbers from. Just a little excessive at a ton for 1 square meter of 5mm
Steel has a specific gravity of about 8.8 gramms pe cc so a square meter of 5 mm would wiegh 44Kg

Mike
You guy's are right, I miss-used the calc. Not much sleep & did a major boo boo. Apology's to John above but thanks to Cooper & Whimsical for picking up on my very poor error.
__________________
exfishnz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 06:13   #50
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,313
Metric? Ughhh

.283 pounds/ cubic inch.
__________________
Joli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 08:57   #51
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Designing a global explorer (full keel & steel)
Posts: 353
John, Cooper & Whimsical,

OK, here we go again


If we go by 8.8 grams per cubic centimetre, then as Whimsical states, 1 m2 of 5mm = 44kg. Having said that, unless I'm an absolute dumbass (which does happen from “time to time” ), hopefully the following measurements are correct (please tell me if they're not):

(8.8grams(100cm^2))=88000 grams for 1 m2 of 10mm

Weight @ 1 m2:
2mm = 17.6kg
3mm = 26.4kg
4mm = 35.2kg
5mm = 44kg
6mm = 52.8kg

1 ft = 30.48cm (304.8mm)
(8.8grams*(30.48cm^2))=8175.4675 grams for 1 sqft of 10mm

Weight @ 1 sqft:
2mm = 1.63kg
3mm = 2.45kg
4mm = 3.27kg
5mm = 4.08kg
6mm = 4.90kg

Btw: did anyone check out that calc link??? That's actually the one John was in reference to (link given to him from another poster from another thread). I put in 12”x12” & 39.37”x39.37” & got those figures, I think the calc is wrong??? (or maybe I'm just a dumbass ) But like you point out - I should've known better.
__________________
exfishnz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 15:23   #52
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Central Coast-NSW-Australia
Boat: 13 mtr Adams steel cruiser-"Lady Eileen".)
Posts: 85
We are all weighted down at the moment!!

Hey exman,

No need to apolgise.We are all "weighted" down with other things at the moment. Don't know about everyone else but I absolutely loathe Winter. Hate to get up in the morning.More thanks to you for your help in even considering the calc's.
I found that link last night too from another post ( replating a 40 ft hull in construction ).It was from Morgan Paul.Thanks.

I will get back to you with your query on the motor torque as soon as I can if it is in the manual.Weight of 9-9.5 tonne was correct I think but that was with a lot of crap stripped out but still with the Yanmar in it and deck, timber ,tanks,flooring etc.But now I can measure up the exisiting structure and add in the 5mm plate and other steel components I will be rebuilding with and hopefully use the calc's myself to work it out.

Would like to see if we can coax a few of those "lurking" engineers out of their shells re the motor query .Your an exfisho- what bait do we use.? lol.!!

trinescape,
hi and thanks for your info.Sounds like you have a real nice project.Like yourself I am reasonably lucky tradewise too.Being a plumber drainer,gasfitter ( advanced lpg ) and having specialised in bathroom/kitchen reno's fro 20 years I have a bit of an edge.won't be scared to tackle other areas like elec's etc with the right advice.Also picking up bits and pieces as I go through ebay,auctions and word of mouth.Amazing what transpires when you put out there what you want to do.People come out of the woodwork to help most times.Wonderful world we live in-most times.
PS. About 20 years ago when I first got interested in sailing I came across a book written by an american guy who knew nil about sailing but he built a tri (I think in Michigan ) and just plain sailed it down the river,out to sea and never went back.He was if I remember correctly a clothes designer-go figure.!! It was called the " Queequeg Voyage ".
great reading if you could get your hands on it.
Oh -I quickly moved past the questioning of my sanity.I already knew I was mad taking on this project.Cant lose any more of it so no worries there.
Post some photos of your tri-would like to see them.

Cheers and thanks to all.
John.

Weyalan,
Hi ,good to hear from you "neighbour".Wil try the chandlery guys over in Texas if you have the name.Great other advice too.Sounds like you me and Cooper should start up a new recycling business.We all seem to trawl the tips etc.We can call it "Bower Birds inc "
Funny now I think about it.Over the last 20 years looking after around 1800 properties for a real estate agent arranging all the renovations and trades I kept lots of things instead of taking it to the tip at times.They called me the Bower Bird and used to laugh at me piling it up into my truck to take home..It stuck so I registered a company called Bower Bird Second Hand building supplies.All the " rubbish " I took out to replace with new stuff I put up for sale.Guess who had the last laugh.
Building a yacht has the same prospect too in ways.?Amazing what people throw out even when they are doing a refit.
__________________
john connell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2008, 23:06   #53
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Designing a global explorer (full keel & steel)
Posts: 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by john connell View Post
More thanks to you for your help in even considering the calc's.
I found that link last night too from another post ( replating a 40 ft hull in construction ).It was from Morgan Paul.Thanks.
No worries John. Just double check the online calc (as that's where I took the first figures from).

Quote:
I will get back to you with your query on the motor torque as soon as I can if it is in the manual.
OK.

In regards to eng torque & props, there are others around here that can help you better than I. I do know that a slower turning but larger prop is more efficient for a displacement hull & that's where torque comes into play. As for online calc's for prop's, I haven't really looked, & even if there was one, it could be buggy (like the weight calc link above?). When you get to this stage, you're probably better off talking to the pro's.

Quote:
Would like to see if we can coax a few of those "lurking" engineers out of their shells re the motor query .

Your an exfisho- what bait do we use.? lol.!!
$$$$$
__________________
exfishnz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2008, 22:40   #54
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 232
Costs to:
Quote:
Set up mast/sails/rigging in general.( motor sailer ).
Buy second hand or go new ?
$20,000.00 (USD) to $30,000.00 Buy a new aluminum mast. Very important part and it's hard to know how strong older ones are. Wooden ones can rot from the inside out or they can last 150 years, but ya never know...

Quote:
Safety gear -radios,EPIRBS.???
$1,500.00 to $5,000.00 plus liferaft
Quote:
Electricals- lighting,power,batteries,internal/ext.
$5,000.00 - buy new batteries and wire. Second hand fixtures are fine if you rewire them.

Add $3,000.00 for shore power inverter and controller. Another $12,500.00 for electronics (Autopilot, radar, depth/wind/speed, fluxgate, GPS, etc.)

Quote:
Plumbing- water/fuel tanks,head,shower,galley,???
$12,500.00

Quote:
NB. Am a licensed plumber,drainer and LPG fitter so labour costs should be reduced in this case a bit.
No labour costs included at all.

Quote:
Now I can understand why everyone used to say "gee- you bloody plumbers are really expensive"
Like me they just hadn't been into any boat shops or knew the real costs involved in boat building.!!
Fitting out- Carpentry Galley,Saloon front v berths, aft cabin,pilot house.
Like asking how long is a bit of string I know but some indicative average costs if anyone knows would be good.
What type of other costs for fittings like windlass's/furlers/hatches/vents/s/steel railings etc should I be looking at.?

We are both in early fifties,reasonable fit, healthy and keen.Novices as far as sailing goes but I have done a light amount of twilighting on a few 40 footers and I may remember a few things.We plan to enrol in a sailing school this spring/summer. Have been a water person ( surfer/scuba etc ) all my life so not scared but respect the ocean well.I would love to think we will sail off up the coast and keep going one day but we need to be realistic too.Maybe we will end up just being "coasters " going up and down the East Coast of Aussie.?

With that view we probably dont really need all the whiz bang gismos straight away on our boat but would love to know what we should be planning to budget for in the future.If we can just get it back into the water and do a bit of general sailing it will be a start.
Having said that I plan to take my time and do this as well as I can and do not plan to take any shortcuts in place of safety or quality.

Again ,thanks for your help and advice.

With respect.

John.
Sounds like a big project. I don't think you'll find that you save much money over buying a used boat ready to go. I think you'll end up spending more but you'll have exactly what you want and you'll know how to fix everything on her. All in - I doubt you'll finish under $150,000.00

There is a book out there called "From a Bare Hull" by Ferenc Mate that you might find useful.

Good Luck ! Hope everything works out well
__________________
Sailormann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2008, 04:45   #55
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,583
Images: 240
Fundamentals of Restoration Projects ~ by David Pascoe

“During my three decades as a marine surveyor, I've always been amazed about two aspects of restoring old boats what, in the marine trade, is known as a refit.
First is that the people who can best afford to do them, usually don't. Followed by those who can't afford such projects are usually the ones that attempt them. Such projects usually go wrong because the owner failed to appreciate the costs, and to estimate them in advance. There are no good deals on fixer uppers with boats. There is just expensive and more expensive ...
... Even so, the fact is that taking a good, well built, but aging and clapped out older boat and restoring it can be the most cost effective way to get yourself into a good quality boat that you would not otherwise be able to afford. It is possible for the economics of such a venture to work out because a lot of the investment is going to be good ole "sweat equity” ...”


Part I : docksidereports.com/fundamentals_of_restoration_proj.htm
-Money
-Estimating
-Planning
-Knowledge
-Time
-Engines
-Repowering
-Painting
-Size
-A Brief Picture

Goto:
Fundamentals of Restoration Projects: This Old Boat


Part II : docksidereports.com/fundamentals_of_restoration_projects_2.htm
-Structural Issues
-Painting
-Electric Systems
-Other Major Systems
-Inboard Boats
-Interiors and
Leaks
-Estimating
Goto:
Fundamentals of Restoration Projects: This Old Boat
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2008, 05:51   #56
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Designing a global explorer (full keel & steel)
Posts: 353
Thanks for the links Gord.

I agree with Mr Pascoe. Another type of project that can be done well (if you use realistic pricing & include a reasonable fudge factor) is the conversion of commercial to pleasure vessels, since the commercial vessel will be mostly tax depreciated & can only be sold for its book value.
__________________
exfishnz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2008, 03:35   #57
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Designing a global explorer (full keel & steel)
Posts: 353
John,

Haven't heard from you in a while re: torque figures, but here's a formula I came across for converting hp to torque (& vice versa) incase your manual only has extra hp & not torque figures.

lb-ft = hp / rpm * 5252
hp = lb-ft * rpm / 5252

Hope this helps.

PS. Note this post down quick, as there seems to be threads disappearing around here
__________________
exfishnz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2008, 04:46   #58
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Central Coast-NSW-Australia
Boat: 13 mtr Adams steel cruiser-"Lady Eileen".)
Posts: 85
Hi exfishnz,

Sorry I haven't got back to you as yet.Have had a little "addition" to our family in the way of a 13 mtr Adams yacht I bought the other day.Has been a bit back and forth in the negotiations stages so been a bit preoccupied with my new " love ".She is a beauty and the build was overseen by Mr Adams himself.Have got the full build history and a considerable photo album to go with it which is really a testament to the builder.It is up to fit out stage basically and the inclusions in the sale were mind blowing.

My "old girl's" future is being considered as we speak.Have to decide-go forward with both,onsell the old girl or?????.
Undecided at present but need to consider the time factor that will be needed for both, although I am very tempted to keep them both on the hop.

Will catch up with you soon. Thanks very much for your assist so far and it will not go by the wayside by a long shot.

Regards
JC.

PS Has there been a few posts going missing.?
PPS.Where is Wheels.Anyone heard from him ?
__________________
john connell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2008, 04:56   #59
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: Van DeStat Super Dogger 31'
Posts: 7,331
Quote:
Originally Posted by john connell View Post
.....
PPS.Where is Wheels.Anyone heard from him ?
Wheels is back - see Transmission Flushing Solvent? but not as a mod it seems.
Welcome back anyway.
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2008, 05:52   #60
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Central Coast-NSW-Australia
Boat: 13 mtr Adams steel cruiser-"Lady Eileen".)
Posts: 85
The results are in-welcome back.

The wheels of fortune sometime turn slowly but I am wheely ,wheely glad he has returned to give it another turn of the wheel-so to speak.

Welcome back Alan,Welcome back.

Regards
JC.
__________________

__________________
john connell is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
rebuild

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Repowering costs. chris_gee Engines and Propulsion Systems 18 13-04-2008 04:19
SL windlass rebuild Islandmike Construction, Maintenance & Refit 11 19-02-2008 11:58
After rebuild - running in sildene Engines and Propulsion Systems 20 16-08-2007 00:41
Stringer rebuild...many ?? never monday Powered Boats 9 05-09-2006 11:34
what it costs ? GordMay General Sailing Forum 7 02-07-2005 08:52



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:36.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.