Is all the new technology worth it?

[J Clark H356]

Originally Posted by bmz

I have never seen a radar that was superimposed on a chart plotter, and as easy to read and informative as AIS, including audible and visible alarms when on a collision course. All large commercial vessels are required to have AIS. They are the only ones I want to see--we must yield to them, and they do not have the maneuverability to yield to us. That plus the fact that they are huge, fast and dangerous makes it imperative that we see them long before they are upon us. On a sailboat like mine, most small vessels must yield to me. When I am on a port tack, it is easy for me to see the sailboats I must yield to before a collision. Inasmuch as AIS is superimposed on the chart plotter the things you mentioned such as limited visibility and docks are irrelevant. For weather, I can pull up local radar on my cell phone. As I said, I'll take a $200 AIS over a $2000 radar any time.

You must not cruise where there are shrimp boats and commercial fishing boats. Try dodging 8, net dragging shrimp boats zig zagging at night in the Gulf of Mexico. I have AIS and Radar (not AIS as mine is older system) superimposed on a Chartplotter at the helm as well as eyeballs. I have it backed up on Raytech software on a laptop down below and INavX with AIS on my IPad and IPhone. Seriously, the shrimp and fishing boats turn off the AIS and having experienced the above, radar was a tremendous asset to safely figure out what was there and where they were going next. You really need both as they compliment each other and don't forget your most Important asset is your eyeballs! AIS is great for large commercial tows and freighters as is radar with MARPHA. On a crossing from Panama City to Clearwater, there were two boats, separate incidences, floating with just an anchor light on, presumably all crew asleep, right on our course line. Eyeballs alone would see them if you keep a good watch, they didn't have AIS or it wasn't on, but my guard zone on radar picked them up well before I actually saw them. This argument of which is best is foolish. You need eyeballs, AIS, and radar if you can afford it. Use everything at your disposal. None of these three are fail safe by themselves.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[ALAIN97133]

Originally Posted by deblen

The fuse just blew at the battery connection in your NMEA 2000 diagram -just as you were approaching a tight harbour or other situation -after dark...& ...let's throw in thick fog-just to make it a bit challenging. No cel signal either... Hmmm-where did you put that clock & hand bearing compass?? All your eggs in one basket(fuse & interfacing) Len

That's an easy one ! Everything on the boat goes off... must be at the root of the electrical system. For my last offshore passage, I had a sextant with the tables & 3 (Yes three!) handheld GPS 'cause I'm lazy. My Ericson is only 34' & 6 metric tons, perfect for one guy to manoeuvre alone even in a tight spot... On my previous Chance 33 (Another 6 ton baby) I used to enter St-Barth's harbor under sail alone when my Volvo MD3B was dead & luff up alongside the dock to fill up my water tanks for the week... You can't do it now for the inner harbor is now filled with city moorings The good question should be what's the SMALLEST sailboat to do what I want to do & what's the cheapest way to do it... NOT what's the biggest I can afford with all its bigger problems Amen!

[Boatyarddog]

Technology is great, but don't forget how to manage without it.
Eventually, something will go wrong, and you'll be so much better off knowing how and what to do if it does.
Complacency, is the enemy here.


Sent from SV Cloud Duster

[Don C L]

I wonder how many still carry paper charts?

[barnakiel]

Some do.

I feel awkward when sailing without a paper chart. Maybe if I were born 10 years later ...

But I do love our tablet loaded with charts: in tight quarters, at night or in the rain. Sort of like having one more sense.

Before tablets I used a handheld gps in the map mode a lot.

b.

[Sandero]

I carry but rarely refer to my paper charts or plot on them. Electronic nav is pretty damn good.

However over the years of creating and naming waypoints I've come to realize this is mostly a waste of time... setting a way point takes a few seconds. Don't bother with routes at all.. can't even see the point except threading twisty channels.

The most useful to me are the bearing line and the heading line out to infinity on the plotter.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Some do.

I feel awkward when sailing without a paper chart. Maybe if I were born 10 years later ...

But I do love our tablet loaded with charts: in tight quarters, at night or in the rain. Sort of like having one more sense.

Before tablets I used a handheld gps in the map mode a lot.

b.

Feel pretty much the same. A GPS plotter zoomed in is really handy in harbors, crossing channels, twisty-turny spots, especially at night or shorthanded or when it wet or windy and it's impossible to hold much less see a chart in the cockpit (ever have a chart blow over the side? ). But I still like having paper charts at the chart table. For trip planning and routing a plotter screen just doesn't work as well. Maybe if I could afford a 24" X 36" plotter.

[Panacea2183]

Originally Posted by Boatyarddog

Technology is great, but don't forget how to manage without it.
Eventually, something will go wrong, and you'll be so much better off knowing how and what to do if it does.
Complacency, is the enemy here.


Sent from SV Cloud Duster

Ditto on that one! And carrying paper charts!, rarely use them but always close by!
Once made a trip to Dry Tortugas in the day of Loran, unit went out while there and came back to Ft Myers via Key West by compass and watch, made it fine.

Also, if you don't have a good magnetic compass get one! And have it compensated or/and make a good deviation table. (Had my fancy flux gate go out as well!)
That being said I rely on my electronics 99.9% of the time.
If your doing long passages mark your Lat Lon every 30 min so if it all goes down at least you will know where you are.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Feel pretty much the same. A GPS plotter zoomed in is really handy in harbors, crossing channels, twisty-turny spots, especially at night or shorthanded or when it wet or windy and it's impossible to hold much less see a chart in the cockpit (ever have a chart blow over the side? ). But I still like having paper charts at the chart table. For trip planning and routing a plotter screen just doesn't work as well. Maybe if I could afford a 24" X 36" plotter.

Paper and a hand held GPS could be invaluable if someone's system or power takes a ****. Where the hell am I would stink. I guess a real sailor would have a sexton and know how to use it if the satellites go down.

[Panacea2183]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Paper and a hand held GPS could be invaluable if someone's system or power takes a ****. Where the hell am I would stink. I guess a real sailor would have a sexton and know how to use it if the satellites go down.

The US navy has finally started teaching sextant navigation again after many years of relying totally on electronics.

I've always wanted to learn how to use one, but just don't have the need for it as My passages are never longer than 130nm and don't travel at nite.

But I never understood why the military abandoned it in the first place.
Imagine in a time of war when communications could be disabled by an enemy and our navy has no clue to figure out where they are!

Some day when I grow up I want to be a circumnavigation expert and do the trip but that won't happen as I'm 59 yrs old and a lazy trawler owner!

Ah the days when boaters were educated in navigation.
I grew up on a boat in the 60's when a stop watch, charts and DED reckoning was all we had, sadly I don't practice it any more and would be hard pressed to rely on it in a hurry.
One thing I know from experience is that if it is electronic or computer reliant some day it will fail, and always at the most inconvenient time.
Be safe out there.

[SV DestinyAscen]

Originally Posted by Panacea2183

The US navy has finally started teaching sextant navigation again after many years of relying totally on electronics.

I've always wanted to learn how to use one, but just don't have the need for it as My passages are never longer than 130nm and don't travel at nite.

But I never understood why the military abandoned it in the first place.
Imagine in a time of war when communications could be disabled by an enemy and our navy has no clue to figure out where they are!

Not saying I agree with the Navy, but the course was challenging during a period of low recruitment, and full blown celestial navigation wasn't necessary as midshipman can be trained to gather the raw data, punch in the computer and get the same result.

Also, if GPS was jammed or satellites knocked out of the sky, the inertia navigation systems using last GPS corrected reference would more likely still be better in accuracy than the best traditional celestial navigator.

[Panacea2183]

Originally Posted by SV DestinyAscen

Not saying I agree with the Navy, but the course was challenging during a period of low recruitment, and full blown celestial navigation wasn't necessary as midshipman can be trained to gather the raw data, punch in the computer and get the same result.

Also, if GPS was jammed or satellites knocked out of the sky, the inertia navigation systems using last GPS corrected reference would more likely still be better in accuracy than the best traditional celestial navigator.

True that!
I admit I know nothing of the navy and their technology.
Just saying in today's world with hacking and all, you never know!
It's comforting to know that our troops out ther can fall back on WTF happened over?
PS: as cruisers most of us do not have that capacity, it's just good practice to have a paper and old school back up.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Panacea2183

The US navy has finally started teaching sextant navigation again after many years of relying totally on electronics.

I've always wanted to learn how to use one, but just don't have the need for it as My passages are never longer than 130nm and don't travel at nite.

But I never understood why the military abandoned it in the first place.
Imagine in a time of war when communications could be disabled by an enemy and our navy has no clue to figure out where they are!

Some day when I grow up I want to be a circumnavigation expert and do the trip but that won't happen as I'm 59 yrs old and a lazy trawler owner!

Ah the days when boaters were educated in navigation.
I grew up on a boat in the 60's when a stop watch, charts and DED reckoning was all we had, sadly I don't practice it any more and would be hard pressed to rely on it in a hurry.
One thing I know from experience is that if it is electronic or computer reliant some day it will fail, and always at the most inconvenient time.
Be safe out there.

A compass, chart,dead reckoning and read the water. That little ripple can tell you a lot.

[Boatyarddog]

Technology is great, but don't forget how to manage without it.
Eventually, something will go wrong, and you'll be so much better off knowing how and what to do if it does.
Complacency, is the enemy here.


Sent from SV Cloud Duster

[jkindredpdx]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I wonder how many still carry paper charts?

In addition to my tablet with OpenCPN, I lay my old chart on Sedna's cockpit chart table. I've scribbled notes regarding hazards and changing channels on the paper. I find using both is easier and more relaxing than zooming in and out with the electronics. Occasionally I'll print out detail charts of tricky spots from the NOAA site before trips.