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Old 03-05-2009, 07:56   #16
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Mike, you are probably wise in hauling the boat and checking for other issues although its a bit like closing the gate after the horse has bolted at this point. I cant tell from the photo but am i correct in assuming that the bottom from the middle fitting is completly missing? if so you need to find the correct profile. I suspect you are going to end up building you own as a new one from the builder or a custom build would likely cost around 2k regardless of how it is built. I would be willing to build one for you if i could locate the neccessary info or if you do it yourself i can lead you through the process.The method i have proposed is one that i have used many times and will yield the strongest,easiest and longest lasting rudder consistent with low/medium technology. Many/most rudders on production sailboats are ridiculously heavy and poorly built. I have a brand new C&C24 rudder sitting in my shop which came with a boat i own, it cost the previous owner about C2k and weighs 66lbs, about twice the weight of a cedar composite version and nowhere near as strong.
Oh,yes,there are cedar sign blanks made with resorcinal glue which are ideal for makeing rudders from if you can find the length an thickness needed. I have used a sugar pine blank to build a 7ft x 20"x 2.5" dagger keel with a 650lb lead bulb on the bottom,very nice stuff to work with.
Steve.
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Old 03-05-2009, 12:49   #17
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Aloha Mike,
I agree with what Steve has to say about your rebuild. I think you can do it yourself for a couple hundred in materials depending on the condition of your fittings.
The bronze Folkboat fittings on one of our fixes disentegrated while I was removing it. Check them thoroughly since you've decided to haul out. We couldn't find bronze cheap enough so are going with stainless.
Here's two of the rudders we've worked on recently. The one next to my truck is almost finished in the photo but just had some minor touch ups to do to do and has a little glass patch near the upper pintle.
Kind regards,
JohnL
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Old 04-05-2009, 10:50   #18
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Hi Guys! Thanks for your continued input! I have located several sources of cedar sign blanks. Tomorrow I will head to the boat (4.5 hour drive), jury rig the rudder to get it to the haul-out and have her hauled, and remove the rudder.
I have had a quote from Phil's foils (Competition Composites Inc.) for $2700 CAD for a finished epoxy on foam core rudder, or an unfinished one for $1800 CAD. Ouch!

So, does this sound like the process?:

1. Cut sign blank to shape using the other rudder as a template.
2. Shape it using tools like bastard files, routers etc.
3. Install pintles (after making sure they and gudgeons appear sound).
4. Fibreglass over it?

Steve, you mentioned you could make one for me. What part of the world are you in?
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Old 04-05-2009, 11:36   #19
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Originally Posted by OffSeason View Post
Hi Guys! Thanks for your continued input! I have located several sources of cedar sign blanks. Tomorrow I will head to the boat (4.5 hour drive), jury rig the rudder to get it to the haul-out and have her hauled, and remove the rudder.
I have had a quote from Phil's foils (Competition Composites Inc.) for $2700 CAD for a finished epoxy on foam core rudder, or an unfinished one for $1800 CAD. Ouch!

So, does this sound like the process?:

1. Cut sign blank to shape using the other rudder as a template.
2. Shape it using tools like bastard files, routers etc.
3. Install pintles (after making sure they and gudgeons appear sound).
4. Fibreglass over it?

Steve, you mentioned you could make one for me. What part of the world are you in?
You know that buying suitable wood planks, glueing them together with some sash clamps from Harbor Freight, shaping with a hand plane then glassing or painting is not such a big deal. This would not cost all that much. There are many suitable woods for this project ie pine or cedar which you should be able to get your hands on. The planks should be finished planned and knot free. The hardware should be installed after the rudder is finished.
On your boat you have a self steering gear which looks as if might have helped the fracture. Be careful how you install this again.
I did offer to purchase the self steerer for a good price, ( I am purchasing a Contessa)
Power tools will speed things up, but just are not necessary. All can be done by hand.
Regards,
Barry
bazz(@)me.com
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Old 04-05-2009, 11:41   #20
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Originally Posted by bazzer View Post
You know that buying suitable wood planks, glueing them together with some sash clamps from Harbor Freight, shaping with a hand plane then glassing or painting is not such a big deal. This would not cost all that much. There are many suitable woods for this project ie pine or cedar which you should be able to get your hands on. The planks should be finished planned and knot free. The hardware should be installed after the rudder is finished.
On your boat you have a self steering gear which looks as if might have helped the fracture. Be careful how you install this again.
I did offer to purchase the self steerer for a good price, ( I am purchasing a Contessa)
Power tools will speed things up, but just are not necessary. All can be done by hand.
Regards,
Barry
bazz(@)me.com
Just as a PS I would not attempt a foam core yourself unless you have experience with this method. If I were doing the job I would use marine ply and resorcinol glue and shape with a plane. If the pintles are in bad shape then buy new ones, but yours look like bronze and should be reusable.
Barry
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Old 04-05-2009, 12:10   #21
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Aloha Mike,
Good luck on your project. I'd fiberglass over your rudder blank before installing the pintles. If they are anything like the Folkboat pintles then they are a long bronze rod with the end forged or welded to make the pintle. You don't want the pintle coming out of the wood blank so you'll need to install them with plenty of adhesive bedding compound when you drive them in. You might ask what other's would use for this application but I'd use a polysulfide adhesive such as Boat Life sells. If you use a polyurethane adhesive you will never be able to remove them again with cutting away your rudder.
You'll see on our replacement pintles we went with entirely different hardware because the original bronze pintles and gudgeons were in pretty bad shape. Maybe you can get some replacement hardware from the Contessa experts if you need to?
Kind regards,
JohnL
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Old 04-05-2009, 12:11   #22
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Mike
Don't write off the old rudder to quickly. It's probably easier and cheaper to repair the existing rudder, and re-enforce it in the process.
Epoxy,fiberglass and maybe some foam or plywood goes a long way.
But it is essential to know why it broke, so you know what to do.

It's easy to start on a new rudder, but there could be hidden costs. For example, I am not sure that the old fittings would be suitable on a wooden rudder.
As I said earlier, I went through the process of building a new wooden rudder to replace an old one. The reason was that the old one was twisted and made it hard work for my self-steering.
I built the new rudder with a slightly different shape. I will come back to that if necessary.

Thomas
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Old 05-05-2009, 14:40   #23
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Hello everyone! Well it looks like a week to get a signblank, and a week before I can haul out, and I am kind of stuck. I may try laminating my own, but don't know if resorcinol is available in town here (I am 4.5 hours drive to the boat).

I don't know how big the rudder is, and so don't know what size to go for with the sign blank. If I knew the size and specs for the rudder, I would even try and build it before I haul out. Anyway, I am going to the boat tomorrow for 2 days. She is in a slip on a very muddy river, so going for a swim to have a look isn't even a very attractive option. If anyone knows a way I might get my hands on a plan for that rudder a.s.a.p. it would be GREAT! Thanks for all your guidance on this. What a great community!

Happy sailing,

Mike
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Old 05-05-2009, 14:54   #24
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I cant remember the design of my Contessa, but if it will come off the bottom fitting at the bottom of the keel, you could take it into the shop and do the repair right and completely. It seems to me rebuilding that rudder would be a lot easier than starting from scratch, but if the whole thing is full of water maybe not. Otherwise just get that hardware contraption off the rudder for now and sister it up good... aluminum plate with through bolts, sealed 3/4 ply each side of the rudder with throughbolts, and plenty of Marine tex underwater epoxy. Until you haul out next.
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Old 05-05-2009, 15:00   #25
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The cedar would be a great material once covered with boat cloth and epoxy or lam resin. If I read you right, when you turn the tiller the bottom of the rudder doesn't move and is completely broken off....? It may be a foam core rudder already. Is it possible once you get it off that you can gouge out the foam, put a metal blade inside for strength. Fill with resin or whatever and then just beef up the laminate from the water line up??
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Old 05-05-2009, 15:28   #26
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It could be worthwhile contacting Jeremy Rogers in UK, to hear his opinion about spares. http://www.jeremyrogers.co.uk

Here is another site ,Contessa 26 archive details - Yachtsnet Ltd. online UK yacht brokers - yacht brokerage and boat sales, with this picture of the Rogers built Contessa. Your rudder is probably not identical, but very close.

Thomas

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Old 05-05-2009, 19:31   #27
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Hi Cheechako,

There is a photo of the rudder break on the first page of this string. I believe that there is still rudder below the waterline. !! But it is definitely not just cracked. The tiller and cheeks wobble back and forth with the top section of the rudder so I will definitely have to do some stabilizing just to get it to the haul-out area.
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Old 05-05-2009, 20:12   #28
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Check out idasailor.com this guy makes some neat kick up rudders and stock replacements for boats around that size
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Old 08-05-2009, 21:45   #29
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Have cedar for Contessa Rudder

Hi,

So, I have tried chasing down a cedar sign blank, but time-lines and costs were somewhat prohibitive, and so based on what the cedar sign guys said, I have purchased 7 Western Red Cedar 2"x4"x12' and have had them edge-planed and in my limited knowledge, I think, ready for laminating.

I have some questions on this:

1. Would a laminated rudder of Red Cedar work for the summer in saltwater, without glassing and epoxy?

2. Should I dowl or through-bolt to give extra strength?

3. Do I need to use Resorcinol glue? Any tips on gluing?

I am hauling the boat on Tuesday, having temporarily stabilized the rudder with some through bolts and plywood for the 400 yard trip to the haul-out.

I will then remove the rudder, and probably bring it back home with me to use as a template for the new rudder.

Any ideas are greatly appreciated. I WANNA get this girl out on the briny!!

Thanks!

Mike
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Old 08-05-2009, 22:57   #30
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Yes, the red cedar will work for the season and maybe much longer. I would use dowels of similar wood and paint will do just fine. If you can't find resorcinol then use epoxy.

Good luck on the quick fix.

regards,

JohnL
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