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Old 02-10-2005, 12:48   #16
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That's cool, it looks like you have well thought it all out.
The issue of the containers is that the steel is not flat. It is pressed into ridges for strength. Used ones thend to be badly dented etc. It's why they are sold off. The steel is high tensile, which is good, but trying to straighten the stuff is a nightmare. So hence the comment about it may be uneconomic to use a container for your material source. A grand worth of new plate would probably get you more useasble sheet than you would ever get out of a grand worth of container. and then you have nice flat plate to work with.
Once you get to the building stage, post some question of what ones would do in a build. For me, I have strong views of how electrics should be run for easy access and future upgrades.
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Old 02-10-2005, 13:22   #17
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I presume you’ve studied the information available at:

Metal Boat Society: http://www.metalboatsociety.com/

Boat Design Forum (Metal Boats): http://boatdesign.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=21

And read the on-line articles by Michael Kasten: http://www.kastenmarine.com/articles.htm
Of Kasten Marine Design: http://www.kastenmarine.com/

Is there a metal yacht in your future? ~ By Ted Brewer
http://www.boatus.com/goodoldboat/steelboat.htm
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Old 02-10-2005, 15:00   #18
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Kasten

Dear Gord,

I am familiar with Kasten Marine. He charges too much for his designs.

Check out the price of the plans for the 96' Zebulan. And you'll see what I'm talking about.

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Kevin
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Old 02-10-2005, 15:16   #19
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Recommendations

Dear Gord,

How's this:

http://www.bruceroberts.com/

http://www.glen-l.com/

http://www.dixdesign.com/

http://www.bodenboatplans.com/home/default.aspx

http://www.hartley-boats.com/

http://www.kastenmarine.com/plans_list.htm

http://ccplans.com/

Regards,

Kevin
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Old 02-10-2005, 20:58   #20
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Cpt.K, when it comes to plans and the pricing of them, it is important to ask what is assiciated with the package. Some are basic plans, some are working drawings, some are full scale profiles, some just give a basic hull shape layout measurement drawings, some give you inside layout and fitout, some even go as far as sail plan and rigging design and fitting points etc etc. Some designers have very good vessel designs that you have to pay for, some are poor designs that can't be given away. So don't judge your choice of boat by the cost of the plan alone.
Trust me, the plans are going to be the most important aspect of the build, yet be one of the cheapest prices you pay of anything in the entire project. This and the idea of secondhand steel gives me a feeling you may not realise the overall cost of a project like this.
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Old 02-10-2005, 23:33   #21
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Maybe I Do. Maybe I Don't ?

Dear Wheeler,

I thank you again for writing again. But, I am a person who is looking at all the angles.

Maybe at this point of time I don't know squat about boats or building plans. Hell, I am not a know-it-all. But, I do not plan to walk onto any land mines here. Been throught enough in my life, and been very cautious, about what people do or say?

But considering (two) years ago. I really didn't know anything, about boats, like I do now. I am acting maybe immature like, with what I'm looking at. And talking about. Like I said in my intro letter to the forum, just over a week ago when I first joined this forum. I am here to learn!!

Yeah, I might be tight when it comes to a budget. But, I'm not only looking at myself contributing money here. I also have my oldest friend in the world to look at as well. To help out in contributing funds.

But guess what? This idea of building a boat in the first place. Is my idea!! Mine and mine alone. And no one is taking that away very easily.

Yes. I have seen some of the prices of the boat plans. But, still if you ask me. They ask too much for some of them. Cause they know they can make that money some way or another. Plus, I know those guys who design them plans. Don't work for cheap, to begin with?

And another thing, before I end this posting. I already have a set of building plans. From Bruce Bingham. Anybody on the forum ever heard of this bloke? I have the full set. Sail plan. Rigging. Etc. etc. . And I got it from a friend of a friend who couldn't finish his project cause, he hasn't much longer to live!! So I got plans for a 47 footer. For absolutely free.

Believe me when I also say this. I ran a check (background) on this Bruce Bingham. It seems this bloke hasn't designed any boats in years. He only writes articles for some magazine. I believe it's Sail magazine?

Regards,

Kevin
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Old 03-10-2005, 02:19   #22
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Old plans....

Most of the plans suitable for amateur construction available are quite old.
It takes a long time to develop a set of plans, and the return is low. Most plan purchasers do not build their boats, but the number of plans sold makes the price quite reasonable.
With the current situation regarding legal liability it could well be difficult or impossible for a designer to get insurance coverage for new plans for amateur building.
The plans available at the moment from known designers have stood the test of time. I would trust them ahead of a complete new design for amateur building.
If you do have a set of plans that may be suitable for what you want then get in touch with the designer to check that they are still current. He may he able to suggest modifications that make the boat better, safer or easier to build. While you are doing this try to get a plan number associated with your name, as this will help with documenting ownershp of the completed boat.
I still have a book by Bruce Bingham - "ferro cement design, techniques and application" in which he describes the techniques for building a ferro boat. It is available from Amazon.com. The description should be at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books
This book gives a good description of the building process. Its value can be judged by the prices asked for a second hand copy.
If you have the time and a suitable space then this design could well be what you want.
There is a 49' ferro boat on the site at http://www.yachtworld.com/projectboa...ctboats_1.html
If this is anywhere near you it could well be worth having a look.
Some of the members of this forum would find a well built 47' ferro boat from an established designer an attractive proposition.
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Old 03-10-2005, 07:40   #23
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Kai Nui,

It's sad to hear that "home built" boats are so difficult to insure.

My father, an avid boat builder all his life, has, quite honestly, built boats that are far superior in seaworthiness and workmanship than the typical production boat.

When I was a kid, we spent summer weekends on Lake Erie aboard Talisman, a 24-ft cabin cruiser that was, as my now nearly 80-year-old father said recently, his magnum opus. She was as stout a boat as ever there was - not a drop of water through the ports or the hull. We never pumped the bilge, but vacuumed it.

Anyway, my point being that Talisman was a damn sight better than 99% of the boats on that lake, but sadly, today, she would probably be uninsurable. What a waste.

Not to say that a lot of "home built" boats don't have problems, but so do plenty of production boats that would probably get a pass from insurers.

BTW, I finally did find an insurer for my 30-year-old fiberglass sloop in Hong Kong. The premium was twice what it was a few years ago (grrr ....), but at least I found someone.
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Old 03-10-2005, 21:34   #24
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The unfortunate side of the insurance industry, is perspective. I would take my 65 year old wood boat off shore long before I would take a 2006 Hunter of similar size, off shore. It is all about numbers. If there are 1000 wood boats out there, and one sinks, the ratio is a 1000 to one chance that a wood boat will sink. If on the other hand, there are 10000 fiberglass boats out there of the same age and design, and one sinks... Well, you get the idea. The actual quality of the individual vessel is of very small consideration, as is the skill level of the builder. When calculating risk for commercial use, especially carrying passengers, it is a strict numbers game. As a business, it makes sense. As a sailor, say looking to purchase a boat, the factors that are far too detailed to be considered when insuring hundreds or even thousands of vessels, will be considered. When I look at a boat, and I am sure the same with you, I look at the design, then the quality of construction, then the boat's ability to meet my needs. And last, the history of the individual boat. An insurance company, looks only at the history of the design.
Your situation just sucks, and I wish I could suggest a solution. The fact that you are required to have insurance, even when not using you boat for commercial use should be a very big consideration for Kevin. Sort of drives the point home.
Of course, playing devils advocate,the big question is, if you were not required to have insurance, would you? And, how many people every year incure unrecoverable losses due to damage from vessels that are uninsured? Personally, I am underinsured, and I know it, but, I accept the risk that I may loose. I do try to make sure that I have coverage to protect others from my actions.
One possible solution, would be a bond. I do not know if this would meet the needs of places like Mexico and China, but it is an efficient way for business' to self insure. Of course, I personally can not afford a bond of that size, but considering the cost of insurance, after 10 years of premiums, I could come close to the coverage I have now. So, enough rambling.
I would like to know a bit more about your boat Scott. As a personal project, I would like to find out what is available from this side of the Pacific.
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Old 04-10-2005, 00:06   #25
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It's all about greed. Another reason why I want to leave this damn country.
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Old 05-10-2005, 04:24   #26
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anyone know about the argosa38 brewer design?
thanks
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Old 05-10-2005, 05:06   #27
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Goto: http://www.tedbrewer.com/

You’re probably thinking of the

ARAGOSA 38 ~ Ted Brewer Design #198
http://www.tedbrewer.com/sail_steel/aragosa38.htm

A 38' Auxiliary Sloop for steel construction
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Old 08-10-2005, 23:26   #28
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Kai Nui, we were neighbors 20+ years ago! I was at 67th and Camelback! Small world isn’t it? I'm in Washington now, but should have a boat and be cruising by spring.

CaptainK: Bruce Bingham wrote "the" book on Ferro cement and did several designs for same back in the 60's and 70's. He also designed a nice dink (Trinka). I think he mostly does illustrations now and like you said some writing.

It looks like you've figured out to stay far away from Ferro. Here are some ideas for building in steel. As someone else said, the actual cost of the steel is but 15% or so of the cost of the boat. Over all, about 80% of the cost of the boat is in labor. That being the case, why not go where labor is cheap and hire professionals who know their stuff, but work for small wages. A good place for that would be Eastern Europe, Romania or Bulgaria. I know that in Romania you can get a certified welder with 20 years of experience for less than $400 a month, ditto cabinet makers, electricians, etc. A wise man would stay there to supervise, but I believe you could get a boat done that was a true professional job for just a fraction of the $$ it would take to do here.

It's a thought anyway.

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TJ
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Old 09-10-2005, 01:38   #29
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Nice suggestion Yachts66,

But I have friends, including myself who knows about welding. And I am a mechanic. A mechanic who is in sabbatical for the moment!!

Yeah, the percentages sounds about right. And like I was thinking earlier before I came up to ferro. Was building in steel.


Regards,


Kevin
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Old 09-10-2005, 08:28   #30
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Aragosa yachts

Sailorman,

Aragosa 38 was built by Aragosa Yachts a Canadian company run by Tom Bistreki in the late eighties. I think the AY38 was designed in 1987. Aragosa also built a 35 and 30/32, all Brewer designs and a AY42 which was a Mark Ellis design (similar to the Niagara 42 but in steel) The 35 is very similar to the Goderich 35 (another Brewer design) with a few improvements in the underbody and a different transom. In 1987 the AY38 sold for US$ 131,000. At the time (87/88) I was thinking of buying a steel boat. I still have the line drawings and specs. I ended up with glass and have never regretted it.
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