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Old 19-07-2013, 07:09   #1
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Awlgrip Battle (sagging) Roll and Tip Expert needed :)

Any Awlgrip wizards out there?

We're in the midst of roll and tipping our Nantucket 38's hull and I'm getting my butt kicked! We've been following the product guide, we used four coats of 545 primer, sanded with guide coats in between -- used water to make sure she was perfectly smooth and all looked great for painting.

We've been using the red tree mohair rollers (but have tried the little hot dog rollers too) and Corona Europa's and have also tried the Wooster Ultra Pro/Soft which actually seemed to come out better

Temperature is around 80 - 85 degrees and humidity around 70% (South Carolina and July......) hull is wiped with two rags as recommended as well as tack cloth and we're about as careful as you can be, but still .... you can see light brush strokes in the paint, I've tried tipping horizontally and vertically about the same results....people come by and say it looks great but when you get up close it has lots of tiny sags....as in everywhere -- every brushstroke sags

We've used 20% thinner, 25% and 33% and tested on glass first and it seems to settle out fine but after 30 minutes or so you can see the sags there too, so it would seem the problem is our mix

The boat is halfway in the shade (starboard side is behind trees and get's mixed sun from 10:00 AM - Noon) then the sun tracks overhead and moves to the port side after 1.

I can see my reflection clear as day in the paint after it goes on, then shine is good but there are definitely tiny ripples in (not detectable from 10' +...but it's the principal!) when we start hand sanding with 320 you can really see it, I have 20+ hours wet sanding this coat with 320 on a block and just by hand and there are tiny ripples everywhere, as in the entire coat - not isolated sags (which is why they don't really stand out when the paint is on), going to have to go back to the orbital with 320 and a feather light touch then go back with block at 400 I think

Some advice I've received from concerned passers by would be to add a drop or two of accelerator, but I'm concerned about it drying too fast and really getting brush strokes or to use some standard (spray) thinner as part of my thinning mix as it evaporates a little faster, but I'm new to awlgrip -- we used Interlux Perfection on the deck and cabin top of our last boat and it came out great

Any suggestions on trying to find the right mix as I know there are a million different variables.

General words of encouragement also appreciated

Thanks!
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Old 19-07-2013, 07:13   #2
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Re: Awlgrip Battle (sagging) Roll and Tip Expert needed :)

Are you using the Awlgrip Brushing Converter and following exactly the Awlgrip instructions? USPaint is quite kind with their detailed advice
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Old 19-07-2013, 07:15   #3
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Re: Awlgrip Battle (sagging) Roll and Tip Expert needed :)

yes, using the brush converter -- awlgrip application guide specifies to thin 10 - 33% based on 75 degrees and 50% humidity
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Old 19-07-2013, 07:29   #4
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Re: Awlgrip Battle (sagging) Roll and Tip Expert needed :)

I spoke with Awlgrip tech support and they recommended less thinner, something in the range 15% -- which doesn't seem to match up with user experience all over the web (many people suggest 33% or higher in almost all conditions)

Any experience out there applying in warm, humid conditions at so low a thinner ratio? I have also read that less thinner is needed in lighter colors (we're using aquamist -- almost white with blue/green hue)
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Old 19-07-2013, 07:30   #5
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Re: Awlgrip Battle (sagging) Roll and Tip Expert needed :)

I am a professional boat repairer...... I do not use Awlgrip.....it's very expensive, it's VERY toxic and in my opinion is difficult to apply even in the best conditions unless sprayed in a controlled environment
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Old 19-07-2013, 07:34   #6
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Re: Awlgrip Battle (sagging) Roll and Tip Expert needed :)

Not much help....I know....sorry.
Awlgrip annoys me.
I hope you can come up with the right combination
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Old 19-07-2013, 07:58   #7
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Re: Awlgrip Battle (sagging) Roll and Tip Expert needed :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianontheroad View Post
I spoke with Awlgrip tech support and they recommended less thinner, something in the range 15% -- which doesn't seem to match up with user experience all over the web (many people suggest 33% or higher in almost all conditions)

Any experience out there applying in warm, humid conditions at so low a thinner ratio? I have also read that less thinner is needed in lighter colors (we're using aquamist -- almost white with blue/green hue)



Pro Awlgrip painter here. Throw that tip out, I often reduce at up to 40% for brushing final topcoat. Are you using hot weather reducer? I often blend reducers to achieve desired flow as well. I would guess the biggest contributor to your problem is painting in direct sunlight and/or wind. What brush are you tipping with? Are these just brush marks that haven't flowed out? Post some pics if you want more help.
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Old 19-07-2013, 08:01   #8
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Re: Awlgrip Battle (sagging) Roll and Tip Expert needed :)

Pick a hatch or something to practice on and topcoat it till you get the mix just right, that way you don't have to sand the whole hull every time.
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Old 19-07-2013, 08:02   #9
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Re: Awlgrip Battle (sagging) Roll and Tip Expert needed :)

it's tough when we have 10+ days between painting sessions because of summer rain
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Old 19-07-2013, 08:06   #10
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Re: Awlgrip Battle (sagging) Roll and Tip Expert needed :)

thanks Minaret, that seems to be what many other people have suggested, but when I thinned to 33% it basically didn't dry at all on the transom (complete shade) for like 10 minutes -- no hatch covers to paint -- we're painting the hull, hatch covers are covered in teak soon to be cork

I've been practicing on glass, no they're not brush strokes that haven't flowed out, more like little sags, I'll try and get a picture today
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Old 19-07-2013, 08:12   #11
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Re: Awlgrip Battle (sagging) Roll and Tip Expert needed :)

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Originally Posted by brianontheroad View Post
thanks Minaret, that seems to be what many other people have suggested, but when I thinned to 33% it basically didn't dry at all on the transom (complete shade) for like 10 minutes -- no hatch covers to paint -- we're painting the hull, hatch covers are covered in teak soon to be cork

I've been practicing on glass, no they're not brush strokes that haven't flowed out, more like little sags, I'll try and get a picture today


OK, if that's the case you definitely need to reduce more, as your paint is going on too thick. What are you tipping with?
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Old 19-07-2013, 08:56   #12
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Re: Awlgrip Battle (sagging) Roll and Tip Expert needed :)

thanks --

tried tipping with Corona Europa (3" and 2" in tight areas) and Wooster Ultra/Pro Soft Sable -- had better experience with the Wooster surprisingly

also tipping horizontally, I did the transom vertically and wasn't happy with the result
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Old 19-07-2013, 09:48   #13
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Re: Awlgrip Battle (sagging) Roll and Tip Expert needed :)

Hopefully the attachment shows up -- this is after sanding with 320 -- these ripples do not appear anywhere near as strong on the painted coat, i will be sanding the all the way out with 320/400
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Old 19-07-2013, 10:02   #14
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Re: Awlgrip Battle (sagging) Roll and Tip Expert needed :)

Here's the test mix on glass we used to select or mix notice the sag up top and no brush strokes -- awlgrip says this is bc our mix is too thin the sag only appeared several hours after painting ... Looked great after the test and 10 minute wait
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Old 19-07-2013, 10:34   #15
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Re: Awlgrip Battle (sagging) Roll and Tip Expert needed :)

Awlgrip is a PITA. I painted my old boat twice. Couldn't get it right. I'm not sure you can. I did find that thin was better and thin coats were better even if coverage was marginal. Just add another coat. Trying to get perfect coverage with each coat cause sag. I used foam rollers and threw them away evert ten minutes, just before they got shabby looking. I had the thought, although I doubt it, that you might have sagging fish eye. Contaminated surface before painting. Maybe, a stretch. Thin coats is the way. I have never used it again. I think their just opening up a market with rolling application. It's meant to be sprayed, period. I'm doing mine in a few weeks with System Three. We'll see how that goes.
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