2:1 ratio epoxy recommendations?

[DougR]

MAS Epoxy..... 2:1. Multiple viscosities and cure speeds that you can mix and match. And it seems not to age very much in the container.

DougR

[coastalexplorer]

Terra Nova, That's quite an impressive list that you have in your mobile kit. BUT I did not see White Vinegar on you list, & whats with the 1" throw away brushes? The vinegar is so cheap & cleans them for reuse very effectively.

Of course you can follow up with acetone and dish washing liquid after IF you want perfection. But nothing beats white Vinegar for going green; reuse recycle.

[Hoosiersailor]

I have used System 3 and West System. Both are good. West Sys will be a little more expensive but I can buy it locally. Both have a pumps which make measuring easy.

[Terra Nova]

ce--the reason I use throw-away brushes is that they're simply not worth my time to clean. I buy them wholesale by the 3-dozen box. My clients would pass out if they saw me cleaning brushes for $60/hour.

[Jim Cate]

FWIW, the shipwright who built our boat became sensitized to "normal" epoxies and could no longer work in that medium. He has found of late that Bote Cote (not sure if that is exactly the right spelling) resins, a 2:1 ratio mix, do not contain whatever it is that he is sensitive to, and he can safely use that type. He's pretty damn careful nowadays even with the "safe" product, but it has allowed him to continue his trade as before.

Jim

[coastalexplorer]

Not wanting to get into an argument on the subject but Of all the tips I have picked up on CF the clean up of epoxy resin with Vinegar has been one of the most useful.

We buy the brushes for 99 cents each. Swishing them in vinegar and wiping them out on a paper towel only takes a minute. besides there are often other tools such as putty knives and spreaders to clean. being retired and no longer a commercial operation having more time than cash. I count in the other costs of sales tax, fuel cost to drive to pick up more. and the lost working time driving to the suppliers. So I hope that there are others like myself who can make use of the information.

When I bought the vessel as a project there were several types of epoxy resin supplied. MAP, System 3, another that I do not know what it is, and have been using West system with pumps almost exclusively. It is not that difficult to remove the pump and empty it back into the can then put the lid back on. Though I hardly ever do that, though I could see how anyone setting out on a voyage taking some with them might want to.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

FWIW, the shipwright who built our boat became sensitized to "normal" epoxies and could no longer work in that medium. He has found of late that Bote Cote (not sure if that is exactly the right spelling) resins, a 2:1 ratio mix, do not contain whatever it is that he is sensitive to, and he can safely use that type. He's pretty damn careful nowadays even with the "safe" product, but it has allowed him to continue his trade as before.

Jim

And it even smells nice

And yes, your spelling is spot on

[Snowpetrel]

I like the botecoat stuff. The two to one mix is easy and reliable to use and the low blush and low toxicity is a bonus. It's a bit pricey and thicker than some of the other brands.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

FWIW, the shipwright who built our boat became sensitized to "normal" epoxies and could no longer work in that medium. He has found of late that Bote Cote (not sure if that is exactly the right spelling) resins, a 2:1 ratio mix, do not contain whatever it is that he is sensitive to, and he can safely use that type. He's pretty damn careful nowadays even with the "safe" product, but it has allowed him to continue his trade as before.

Jim

Jim, it would be interesting to know what it is that he was using before. Both brand(s) & mixing ratio(s). As from some of what I've read on the subject of sensitization, the more concentrated the hardener, the higher the chances of sensitization. So that if you're using a system which is mixed at 5:1, then you may be running a higher risk of having reactions to it than with a 2:1. Or so it would seem. It's something I plan to look into a bit anyway. And it would be interesting to hear his thoughts on the subject, if possible. Since I'm sure that he's done some significant research on the matter.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by minaret

Silvertip from System Three.

Obviously you know more than a little about composites, & are well regarded around here. So what about Silvertip makes it your go to resin?

And if this is your "Gold Standard", what others do you consider "Silver", & "Bronze". Also do you use this particular resin for all of your laminating with reinforcements? With woods? Overhead laminating? Vacuum bagging? For post cured composites, etc.

Also, are there any that you abhor, & if so, why, & in what applications? Not to out any manufacturer from meanness. I'm just looking for opinions. And hoping to learn from the experiences of others.

[gulfstar37]

For epoxy to carry on boat, west makes small kits that has measured single foil packs similar to catsup packs, of resin and hardner. The kit includes filler, popsicle mixing sticks, mixing cups and gloves. Although cost is more you have everything needed to do a small job. Just tear open both packs, empty into mixing cup, stir, add filler if needed apply, clean up and take gloves off that are supplied in the kit. I've carried this kit for 20 years and used once in that time, cracked outboard fuel pump, and replaced for next out in nowhere repair. These are very convient, no mess or leaking pumps to store.

Anything that is larger repair I go back to regular cans and pumps. If west isn't your flavor I'm sure other manufacture may offer such a kit.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

Obviously you know more than a little about composites, & are well regarded around here. So what about Silvertip makes it your go to resin?


Silvertip is a stellar laminating resin. WEST is better for general purpose, generally speaking. I use a ton of both. WEST is too thick for laminating, viscosity is all wrong. I use it for bonding and fairing, mostly with fast hardener. Silvertip has hit the sweet spot with hardeners too, slow gives tons of pot life and working time for big layups but still crispy and ready for grind the next morning even in fairly low temps. Viscosity is perfect, with excellent wet out, fast penetration of laminate, without any run out like a lot of more expensive high end resins. Only drawback is it will wet out right through a tyvek and your clothes in very short order. Excellent resin.






And if this is your "Gold Standard", what others do you consider "Silver", & "Bronze". Also do you use this particular resin for all of your laminating with reinforcements? With woods? Overhead laminating? Vacuum bagging? For post cured composites, etc.



WEST for bonding woods, with Six Ten for bonding and resin for sealer. Mostly use Silvertip for high quality hand lams. If I'm bagging I prefer Proset, as I'm no longer concerned about runout as much as resin ratio, and it can achieve very high strength with a low temp post cure.





Also, are there any that you abhor, & if so, why, & in what applications? Not to out any manufacturer from meanness. I'm just looking for opinions. And hoping to learn from the experiences of others.

I've used most resin systems out there at one point or another, been involved in manufacturer's samples/trials for MAS, Epi,
Proset, etc. That is places where I was employed were given large trial samples and asked for feedback. Let's just say I recommend the resin systems which I prefer for solid reasons.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

FWIW, the shipwright who built our boat became sensitized to "normal" epoxies and could no longer work in that medium. He has found of late that Bote Cote (not sure if that is exactly the right spelling) resins, a 2:1 ratio mix, do not contain whatever it is that he is sensitive to, and he can safely use that type. He's pretty damn careful nowadays even with the "safe" product, but it has allowed him to continue his trade as before.

Jim

Unfortunately, the agent in most epoxy resins which causes skin and respiratory sensitization is the amides/amines in the hardener. There are certainly non polyamide resin systems, but they generally do not cure as fast and can not achieve the same numbers as polyamide systems. In my experience, a move to non amide systems means a reduction in quality. This stuff is confusing for the layman as it involves the differences between polyamide and polyamine resin systems, before we even get in to the proprietary blend of hardeners used in most resin systems, such as cycloaliphatics. Unfortunately, as with most things in life, it's the good stuff which kills ya.

A few links for your perusal:

https://www.duraamen.com/blog/choose.../#.WYyZAVGGOUk

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/...nalCode=iechad

http://www.hrsd.com/pdf/Coatings%20M...PENDIX%20C.pdf

http://protective.sherwin-williams.c...gs%20Guide.pdf

Short and sweet:

Epoxy Differences Between Amine, Amide, Cycloaliphatic, and Amine Adduct




Any idea if Bote Cote is a phenolic novolac or bisphenol based resin sytem? Just curious...

[minaret]

Ah, answered my own questions there. Informative reading on the formulation of Bote Cote here:


Bote-Cote epoxy



I really like the added insect repellent to keep bugs from landing in your clear coat. Genius!


Price isn't bad either. May have to give it a whirl just to see!


http://boatcraft.com.au/Shop/index.p...index&cPath=15

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by minaret

I've used most resin systems out there at one point or another, been involved in manufacturer's samples/trials for MAS, Epi,
Proset, etc. That is places where I was employed were given large trial samples and asked for feedback. Let's just say I recommend the resin systems which I prefer for solid reasons.

Yes, I myself have wound up with some significant quantities of such items under similar circumstances over the years. Let's just say that asking for what you want pays

Originally Posted by minaret

I really like the added insect repellent to keep bugs from landing in your clear coat. Genius!

Now that there is a priceless tip, as certain species of insects flock to open epoxy like it was free honey. Gonna' have to try that!

And minaret, thanks for the tips, for me, as much as for everyone else. They're much appreciated. But for the grinding aspect, it might be fun to intern in your shop. Well, fun in the educational sense. And the part about how guys with tools seem to revert to being about age 12, mentally & emotionally. Can't says as that gets old, so long as the same guys will pull 36hr stints with you when something needs DONE.