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Old 28-01-2014, 18:54   #31
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Re: 10 yr old boat preventative maintenance

Which head? Is that like religion, sex, and politics? (G)

Depends on the space and resources and budget you're willing to go for. You'll find threads on the merits and drawbacks of each. If it looks easy to operate, easy to clean, and big enough for adults...the rest will be easy.
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Old 28-01-2014, 19:08   #32
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Re: 10 yr old boat preventative maintenance

Don't assume that an expensive, fresh-water, electric head is any more reliable than the most basic hand-pumped salt water version. The last boat I was on had one of each, and both of the failed in the worst possible way.
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Old 28-01-2014, 19:13   #33
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Re: 10 yr old boat preventative maintenance

We have an electric macerator head on our boat, and I think my wife likes it because it's a little more like a real toilet. In use, it sounds like a giant garbage disposal, because that's pretty much what it is. Its very good at its intended purpose, but it will still choke on any foreign object (like feminine hygiene products). Surprisingly, it is not loud at all outside of the head compartment. Big, big drawback - dead battery means NO head.
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Old 28-01-2014, 19:17   #34
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Re: 10 yr old boat preventative maintenance

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Big, big drawback - dead battery means NO head.
OTOH - if your batteries are dead you have a way bigger problem than the head not working.
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Old 28-01-2014, 20:11   #35
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Re: 10 yr old boat preventative maintenance

Dead batteries that mean no head, will shortly mean no wife, if she is not of the bucket and chuck it crowd. Many times on CF I have answered to people that are asking if there boat is ready for a passage, that they should go out for a weekend at anchor and shut of the main battery switch, and see if there boat can still be functional. If your whole electrical system crashes, you should still be able to get fresh water from your tanks, be able to get a stove working for hot meals, have a head that is functional, enough back up lights to function down below, and some way to see your compass since your auto pilot will be dead. It is surprisingly easy to cross an ocean without electricity, if you dont have to come into a small slip at the far end. It is impossible to safely cross an ocean if you cant get water from your tanks, hot meals, and a few simple comforts(like a working head). Complicated comforts are fine as long as you have simple backups for when the electrons fail you. Just my opinion. _____Grant.
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Old 29-01-2014, 05:38   #36
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Re: 10 yr old boat preventative maintenance

OK, understand about the electric head, but this boat won't cross much of anything really, maybe to the Bahamas if I get more time off than I think I will. For a cruising boat, I had always thought I'd have two heads, not that I would need them, just most larger than 40' seem to come with them and I had thought if one broke we had a spare until I could fix the broken one.
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Old 29-01-2014, 12:34   #37
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Re: 10 yr old boat preventative maintenance

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OK, understand about the electric head, but this boat won't cross much of anything really, maybe to the Bahamas if I get more time off than I think I will. For a cruising boat, I had always thought I'd have two heads, not that I would need them, just most larger than 40' seem to come with them and I had thought if one broke we had a spare until I could fix the broken one.

You know when I first got my 393 I thought two heads was overkill on a 39 footer. You'd be amazed how many times that second head came in handy. Nothing like having a spare head. Or his and hers, just like double sinks in an en suite.
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Old 29-01-2014, 13:40   #38
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Re: 10 yr old boat preventative maintenance

It doesn't have to be electric or fresh water, there's always Lavac to consider. Damned things can suck a beaverdam complete with the beaver through the pump if you use a hand pump, and you can use them in a dual electric/manual operation if you have a bit more space for all the extra bits and a love/hate relationship with electricity.

Just having a toilet bowl and seat the same size as a standard home bowl, or an extra inch or two taller, like the better home bowls, would be a rare treat on a lot of boats.

And mounting the head athwartships is still considered the rare sign of a yacht designer who designs for being at sea, rather than in port.

If your shower is the same compartment as the head, having two heads gives you the nice perq of having "the other" head nice and dry, even if someone is using the other one as a shower. Or the aft one as a wet locker. So...a luxury, but aren't luxuries nice? (G)
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Old 29-01-2014, 13:44   #39
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Re: 10 yr old boat preventative maintenance

How did this discussion become all about heads?

While heads are important, they can be changed out to some degree.
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Old 29-01-2014, 14:09   #40
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Re: 10 yr old boat preventative maintenance

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I'm looking at buying a ten yr old production boat for my learner boat. It will never be used as a bluewater cruising boat, this one is to learn with, 35' or so. Real boat to come later upon retirement and once I know more about my needs / wants.

Going back to the start:

I think you should rethink this and consider getting the boat you want now! If it is a good boat and you are wrong it doesn't really cost much more in lost money to get out of boating with it than for the "starter". But if it turns out that you like boating it is going to cost a lot less to get the boat you want now instead of losing money maintaining and later selling your "starter" boat.

I thought the same as you back when I got my first boat and got a 39' boat that I felt was a comprise between the "starter" and "real" boat. In the end for 2 years of use (I knew 3 months into owning it that I wanted my real boat) it cost me about $10k plus 2 years of payments that could have gone toward my current boat.

And before you say "I don't know what I what in a boat yet", rest assured that in the end your "real boat" with still not be perfect and you will always what something different.
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Old 29-01-2014, 14:16   #41
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Re: 10 yr old boat preventative maintenance

Two problems with buying what I think I want to end up with, OK, at least three problems.
1. Can't afford it, and I've promised myself to not finance a boat, selling my house and land will easily allow me to buy a boat, but not in a position to sell house now.
2. What I think I want is a high 40's ft steel hull, full keel, Pilot house, watermaker etc. and many things that will be outdated in five years or just impractical for a daysailer, just don't think a boat like that is what I want to go bay / day sailing in light winds
3. Many tell me a 35' plastic fantastic 15,000 lb production boat is too much boat for me to begin with, I fell real sure what I just described is way too much boat to learn on.
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Old 29-01-2014, 14:29   #42
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Re: 10 yr old boat preventative maintenance

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Two problems with buying what I think I want to end up with, OK, at least three problems.
1. Can't afford it, and I've promised myself to not finance a boat, selling my house and land will easily allow me to buy a boat, but not in a position to sell house now.
2. What I think I want is a high 40's ft steel hull, full keel, Pilot house, watermaker etc. and many things that will be outdated in five years or just impractical for a daysailer, just don't think a boat like that is what I want to go bay / day sailing in light winds
3. Many tell me a 35' plastic fantastic 15,000 lb production boat is too much boat for me to begin with, I fell real sure what I just described is way too much boat to learn on.
"learning" on small boats is overrated in my opinion. My first boat was 39' and that was with 3 months of experience on a 32' boat.

If your goal is to afford a more expensive boat in a few years my advise is don't get a boat yet. Sail with other people and bank the money or consider joining a sailing club (not really s much as it seems) a money saver.

If you get a 35' 10 year old boat for a "learner" and keep for 5 years expect to lose $50k on costs, depreciation and selling expenses.
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Old 29-01-2014, 15:08   #43
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Re: 10 yr old boat preventative maintenance

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I actually thought of not replying because of some of the statements in your post: production boats aren't for bluewater? what's a "real boat"?

But here are some of the things you can expect:
  • Rebedding - most sealants will be near the end of their useful life and you will need to remove hardware and rebed with new sealant. This is normal maintenance that is needed on almost any boat. Look up butyl tape on the internet.
  • Stern Tube Hose or Dripless Replacement - Inboard engines need someway to get the shaft out of the boat. Typically this is done through a stern tube that is sealed with a stuffing box or dripless adapter. The life cycle of these items is right around 10 years. So you will have to pull the shaft, replace and reinstall. Not a typically difficult job but doing it right costs money and/or time.
  • Motor mounts - If you are following a preventative maintenance cycle, these will be up around that 10 year mark as well. Again, not too difficult but something that needs to be done.
  • Engine Items - You will likely have to do some work on the engine including replacing/rebuilding water pumps, fuel pumps, hoses, cleaning the heat exchanger, etc.
  • Running Rigging - depending on how much the boat has been used, you will probably have some rope to replace. This can be pricey if you have someone else make of the pieces. Much cheaper if you just buy a roll and do your own splicing.
  • Standing Rigging - Should be OK. Some people to recommend replacing it around 10 years as a preventative maintenance item. But I have also seen boats over 30 years old with the original standing rigging.
  • Bottom Paint - This is also typically the mark where you need to bring it back down to gelcoat and start again. Again, not difficult but it can be labor intensive and expensive if you plan to pay someone else to do it.
  • Electronics - All of the fancy toys will be considered old. Most people will want newer, fancier toys.
  • Batteries - You will probably be up against the life cycle of your batteries as well. Do some research on 6 volt golf cart batteries compared to the likely 4Ds that are on the boat.
  • Hull Reconditioning - Might be time for the first light compounding and a good waxing.
Good luck and fair winds,

Jesse
Jesse - your list is right-on, and what I've been working through with our now 14 year old boat!
Don
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