Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-02-2012, 11:27   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 152
Yanmar Filter Recommendations

I have aYanmar 4JH3 engine and I believe the engine final filter is 2 microns. What filter should I use in my primary Racor 500MA filter . . . . . 2, 10, 20, 30 microns?? Thanks for any advice and I would also appreciate rationale for the recommendations.

Bob
__________________

__________________
rabend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2012, 11:39   #2
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabend
I have aYanmar 4JH3 engine and I believe the engine final filter is 2 microns. What filter should I use in my primary Racor 500MA filter . . . . . 2, 10, 20, 30 microns?? Thanks for any advice and I would also appreciate rationale for the recommendations.

Bob
30 microns in the primary. If you always sail in the same area in 1st world, check the element during first change (change both at same time). If the prefilter is much cleaner than the engine filter, you can switch prefilter to 10 microns.

You want both filters to share the burden as equally as possible. For boats with fuel polishing systems with pumps and filters, it's different.

ciao!
Nick.
__________________

__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2012, 12:03   #3
Registered User
 
Ziggy's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: U.S., Northeast
Boat: Contessa 32
Posts: 1,421
Images: 2
Re: Yanmar Filter Recommendations

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
You want both filters to share the burden as equally as possible.
Why? The primary filter usually has a much larger surface area and it is often easier to change.
__________________
... He knows the chart is not the sea.
-- Philip Booth, Chart 1203
Ziggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2012, 12:13   #4
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy

Why? The primary filter usually has a much larger surface area and it is often easier to change.
Because it is their job to provide as much clean fuel to the engine as possible. When you put 2 micon in the prefilter, you lose all capacity of the engine filter because it doesn't get used. Ideally, both should clog at he same time, in which case the maximum amount of fuel was cleaned. Real big particles fall down in the bowl of the racor.

This will never happen when you don't expect it because you keep an eye on the vacuum meter on the Racor (buy one if yours doesn't have it, it replaces the knob on top in that case).

Maybe you read my post differently... if your racor prefilter has more media surface area... you look at how dirty the surface is compared to the engine filter. The prefilter might have caught much more dirt because the element is bigger. Normally, a 30 micron prefilter catches around 75% of the dirt, leaving 25% or less for the engine filter.

ciao!
Nick.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2012, 13:19   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 152
Re: Yanmar Filter Recommendations

Nick,

Thanks for the rundown! I was wondering what changes with fuel polishing/

Thanks,

Bob
__________________
rabend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2012, 13:50   #6
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Re: Yanmar Filter Recommendations

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabend View Post
Thanks for the rundown! I was wondering what changes with fuel polishing
see A new fuel system for Jedi (English) - s/v Jedi

ciao!
Nick.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2012, 13:51   #7
Registered User
 
Ziggy's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: U.S., Northeast
Boat: Contessa 32
Posts: 1,421
Images: 2
Re: Yanmar Filter Recommendations

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Because it is their job to provide as much clean fuel to the engine as possible. When you put 2 micon in the prefilter, you lose all capacity of the engine filter because it doesn't get used. Ideally, both should clog at he same time, in which case the maximum amount of fuel was cleaned. Real big particles fall down in the bowl of the racor.

This will never happen when you don't expect it because you keep an eye on the vacuum meter on the Racor (buy one if yours doesn't have it, it replaces the knob on top in that case).

Maybe you read my post differently... if your racor prefilter has more media surface area... you look at how dirty the surface is compared to the engine filter. The prefilter might have caught much more dirt because the element is bigger. Normally, a 30 micron prefilter catches around 75% of the dirt, leaving 25% or less for the engine filter.

ciao!
Nick.
One of the large turbine series Racor filters has much larger capacity than the puny Yanmar secondary filters (I'd guess at least a factor of 10) and the secondary does not provide much additional capacity. A 30 micron Racor element filters out only about 90% of 30 micron or larger particles. This means that the secondary needs to catch the remaining 30 micron particles and everything smaller than that. I suppose there is nothing really wrong with the approach you suggest, but in practice, trying to tune the primary filter rating to get both filters to fail simultaneously is not practical, since the Racor elements only come in 2, 10, and 30 micron sizes. For what it's worth, here's the advice from Parker-Racor:

Quote:
Racor’s two micron filter medium should only be used in final or secondary filters where the fuel is first filtered by a primary filter. The primary filter for a two micron final filter should use a 10 micron medium. The exception in using two micron filter in a primary filter is to obtain high-efficiency water separation, and is usually used in marine applications where the fuel supply may be cleaner but also many contain water more often. If the installation can allow the use of a filter large enough, then a two micron filter can serve in a system at the only filter in that system.
I don't think there's any harm in using a small micron rating primary filter, provided it does not significantly restrict the fuel flow.
__________________
... He knows the chart is not the sea.
-- Philip Booth, Chart 1203
Ziggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2012, 13:59   #8
Registered User
 
sabray's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wash DC
Boat: PETERSON 44
Posts: 3,169
Re: Yanmar Filter Recommendations

With no technical detail I decided big is good. I put a 1000lf racor and use 2 micron cartridge. The tiny engine filter could catch some crap but nothing like that big bowl big surface filter. Advantage of the engine filter is its right in front of the pump.Worked for a few years now. Have a vacuum gauge that makes checking easy. Never seen it read near red line. Change both filters at the same time annually its cheap and easy. Cant think of anything wrong with this approach.
__________________
sabray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2012, 14:18   #9
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Re: Yanmar Filter Recommendations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
One of the large turbine series Racor filters has much larger capacity than the puny Yanmar secondary filters (I'd guess at least a factor of 10) and the secondary does not provide much additional capacity. A 30 micron Racor element filters out only about 90% of 30 micron or larger particles. This means that the secondary needs to catch the remaining 30 micron particles and everything smaller than that. I suppose there is nothing really wrong with the approach you suggest, but in practice, trying to tune the primary filter rating to get both filters to fail simultaneously is not practical, since the Racor elements only come in 2, 10, and 30 micron sizes. For what it's worth, here's the advice from Parker-Racor:

I don't think there's any harm in using a small micron rating primary filter, provided it does not significantly restrict the fuel flow.
Like I wrote before: in 1st world countries there's a good chance that 10 micron will work well. If you go cruising to the typical tropical cruising grounds, the fuel quality changes and you better adapt your filters to it or get into a lot of trouble. I've seen hundreds of boats with the problem.. many even have 2 micron primary elements and wonder why the engine quits.

Racor specifies the 30 micron element as primary filter, the 10 micron as secondary filter and the 2 micron as final (on-engine) filter. You can find those specs here: http://www.racor-filters.com/images/...bineSeries.pdf

If you buy genuine Racor elements, they filter all the particles of the -nominal- rating of the element. In reality, a 30 micron element will also filter out many 10 and 20 micron particles but will also pass some 30 micron particles. So yes, some 30 micron particles will pass to the final filter (but Racor does not specify how much and I doubt 10%) but the 30 micron element will also block many smaller particles. All elements block 99% of water.

So the simple answer stays 30 micron primary and 2 micron final stage. Only when your tank is really clean and you only get really clean fuel you can be better off with a 10 micron primary. I have never met boats that got into trouble because of using 30 micron primary filters and I met hundreds who got into trouble for using 2 microns as primary. With 10 microns halfway, 30 micron primary filter elements seem the safe option.

ciao!
Nick.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2012, 14:26   #10
Registered User
 
sy_gilana's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On board
Boat: Van de Stadt 50'
Posts: 1,101
Send a message via Skype™ to sy_gilana
Re: Yanmar Filter Recommendations

Jedi....

Known from somewhere meeting before you are...

Heel mooi your filter system is...

Have a look at the DAVCO filter, very clever design...

Regards.
__________________
Tight sheets to ya.
http://gilana.org
sy_gilana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2012, 14:39   #11
Registered User
 
Ziggy's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: U.S., Northeast
Boat: Contessa 32
Posts: 1,421
Images: 2
Re: Yanmar Filter Recommendations

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
If you buy genuine Racor elements, they filter all the particles of the -nominal- rating of the element. In reality, a 30 micron element will also filter out many 10 and 20 micron particles but will also pass some 30 micron particles. So yes, some 30 micron particles will pass to the final filter (but Racor does not specify how much and I doubt 10%) but the 30 micron element will also block many smaller particles. All elements block 99% of water.
According to Racor (http://www.parker.com/literature/Racor/7550_Rev_-_Fuel_Filtration_History.pdf):
Quote:
Racor makes filters with various filtration efficiencies, but its standards for non-OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) are 2, 10, and 30 micron filter elements. The actual efficiency ratings for these are 98%, 95%, 90%, respectively.
90% efficiency at 30 microns means that the filter will retain 90% of all 30 micron and larger particles.
__________________
... He knows the chart is not the sea.
-- Philip Booth, Chart 1203
Ziggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2012, 14:52   #12
Registered User
 
sabray's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wash DC
Boat: PETERSON 44
Posts: 3,169
Re: Yanmar Filter Recommendations

does not explain why not use a large 1000 series 2 micron filter up front. Racor can recommend the extra filters but why?. The engine filter is a suspender and the primary 1000 has enough surface area to manage a large usage. There is less hose less fitting. Doesnt look as cool but otherwise see no sense in multiple pre filters and then an engine filter. My thought was get the crap right now in as simple a way. If something gets buy the big 2 micron the cummins filter catches that. Big 2 micron filter water separator then engine separator. If you didnt have room for a 1000 series then two 500s make sense. Otherwise I see no down side . Except no one seems to like the idea.
__________________
sabray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2012, 14:55   #13
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Re: Yanmar Filter Recommendations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
According to Racor (http://www.parker.com/literature/Rac...on_History.pdf
90% efficiency at 30 microns means that the filter will retain 90% of all 30 micron and larger particles.
Cool, thanks for the PDF link. There was a small typo in the link, which I fixed in the quote in this post.

The document also describes how using a filter too long leads to lower efficiency figures. The message is to keep an eye on the pressure gauge and change when indicated.

ciao!
Nick.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2012, 14:57   #14
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Re: Yanmar Filter Recommendations

Quote:
Originally Posted by sabray View Post
does not explain why not use a large 1000 series 2 micron filter up front. Racor can recommend the extra filters but why?. The engine filter is a suspender and the primary 1000 has enough surface area to manage a large usage. There is less hose less fitting. Doesnt look as cool but otherwise see no sense in multiple pre filters and then an engine filter. My thought was get the crap right now in as simple a way. If something gets buy the big 2 micron the cummins filter catches that. Big 2 micron filter water separator then engine separator. If you didnt have room for a 1000 series then two 500s make sense. Otherwise I see no down side . Except no one seems to like the idea.
I did not check out the specs but think your thought has a flaw in that the Racor 1000 filter is designed for much higher flow rates. When your engine does not meet the minimum flow rate, the whole turbine section of the filter fails to operate.

A filter must be matched to the engine fuel flowrate.

ciao!
Nick.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2012, 15:36   #15
Registered User
 
sabray's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wash DC
Boat: PETERSON 44
Posts: 3,169
Re: Yanmar Filter Recommendations

No I'm within flow rate but good point. That should be checked so add a downside.
Point is that these filter systems have a flow rate and you need to be within spec. This has to do with turbine models. The filtration is still micron rating but the water seperation and turbine effect declines. I think.
__________________

__________________
sabray is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
yanmar

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yanmar SD20 Saildrive Oil Seals - Water in Drive matrix Propellers & Drive Systems 39 19-08-2014 02:40
For Sale: Yanmar SD20 / San Francisco Bay Area K38bob Classifieds Archive 5 22-07-2012 18:32
3JH4E - Hunter 38 - Racor Filter #? Ed_Sail Monohull Sailboats 12 21-02-2012 10:09
Yanmar 2 QM 15 Oil Pressure Low markwesti Engines and Propulsion Systems 11 17-02-2012 15:06
Cleaning Racor 500 FG Filter - Problem ! MarkJ Engines and Propulsion Systems 36 16-02-2012 12:56



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:46.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.