Westerbeke 8 generator will not start

[woodyapex]

I really need to get the geni going in the next 24 hours ideally .
So any help will be much appreciated .
So I've not had this generator run since I got it but ,
I had a guy from the keys give it a quick turn over . And he did a few things and it gave a cough and splutter and died again . At this point he sighted that it's the exhaust a that was all he said . Any how it will turn over but maybe not that fast , I've since found the 2 fuel filters full of **** and I mean full .
With those changed it still does not run . Not even a hint of running .
Fuel is coming out of every thing I open so it seems that the fuel pump is ok .
So
My thoughts
Could it be all 3 injectors .
Could it be the injector pump .
Could it be heater plugs .

What would you guys suggest ?
I need to get this fixed asap
Thanks in advance woody

[brantleychuck]

On my generator the throttle opens to run position while cranking. This is easy to verify

You may have already , change fuel filter mounted on engine.

Turn on glow plugs, touch glow plug bases with finger, should be able to feel heat. Another way is with a clamp on dc amp meter. Clamp around wire going to glow plug. If it's pulling amps it working.

Pull one injector and turn motor over and watch for fuel spray out the tip.

I'm betting on the throttle not moving to run position. If that's the case , post that. A whole trouble shooting routine for that problem can be done.


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[River Cruiser]

I have a Westerbeke BTD 8.0. The reasons they won't start - #1 if the starter isn't spinning it fast enough, #2 if the glow plugs aren't working, #3 air in the injection system, #4 exhaust elbow plugged with carbon and #5 the cylinders dry out and need a bit of sae 30 oil shot down each glow plug hole, crank the engine over to spread the oil around the cylinders. Also a bad sender on the safety shutdown circuit can cause them not to start. The injection system is self bleeding, but it takes awhile because the electric lift pump doesn't move much fuel, also about 10 or 20 seconds is all you want to energize the glow plugs with the preheat switch according to the manual to keep from burning up the glow plugs. Depending on how the exhaust plumbing is arranged you do not want to do a lot of cranking with the starter to keep water from flooding any cylinders with open exhaust valves, shut off the thruhull and open as soon as it starts. Check your battery voltage, the battery connections and cables, if it's spinning good check the fuel solenoid to be sure it's locking the lever in the on position, it may pull it back but not to the stop. I've had all theses problems at one time or another except the bad sender and plugged exhaust elbow, do some checks and if you have a question just ask, good luck


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[Exile]

Originally Posted by River Cruiser

I have a Westerbeke BTD 8.0. The reasons they won't start - #1 if the starter isn't spinning it fast enough, #2 if the glow plugs aren't working, #3 air in the injection system, #4 exhaust elbow plugged with carbon and #5 the cylinders dry out and need a bit of sae 30 oil shot down each glow plug hole, crank the engine over to spread the oil around the cylinders. Also a bad sender on the safety shutdown circuit can cause them not to start. The injection system is self bleeding, but it takes awhile because the electric lift pump doesn't move much fuel, also about 10 or 20 seconds is all you want to energize the glow plugs with the preheat switch according to the manual to keep from burning up the glow plugs. Depending on how the exhaust plumbing is arranged you do not want to do a lot of cranking with the starter to keep water from flooding any cylinders with open exhaust valves, shut off the thruhull and open as soon as it starts. Check your battery voltage, the battery connections and cables, if it's spinning good check the fuel solenoid to be sure it's locking the lever in the on position, it may pull it back but not to the stop. I've had all theses problems at one time or another except the bad sender and plugged exhaust elbow, do some checks and if you have a question just ask, good luck


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Excellent trouble-shooting post. I have the same genset and found the fuel soleneid issue you identified rather deceptive. I've now replaced mine, but the plunger mechanisms on both the old & the new would only draw back on their own about 3/4 of the way to the stop. I've always had to physically move it the rest of the way. Haven't figured out a fix yet, but easy thing for the OP to double-check.

[Lodesman]

I'd bet on fuel solenoid - there's a service bulletin that refers to a circuit improvement.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

I'd bet on fuel solenoid - there's a service bulletin that refers to a circuit improvement.

Thank you. I have this bookmarked and will confirm whether mine has that improvement or not.

[woodyapex]

Originally Posted by River Cruiser

I have a Westerbeke BTD 8.0. The reasons they won't start - #1 if the starter isn't spinning it fast enough, #2 if the glow plugs aren't working, #3 air in the injection system, #4 exhaust elbow plugged with carbon and #5 the cylinders dry out and need a bit of sae 30 oil shot down each glow plug hole, crank the engine over to spread the oil around the cylinders. Also a bad sender on the safety shutdown circuit can cause them not to start. The injection system is self bleeding, but it takes awhile because the electric lift pump doesn't move much fuel, also about 10 or 20 seconds is all you want to energize the glow plugs with the preheat switch according to the manual to keep from burning up the glow plugs. Depending on how the exhaust plumbing is arranged you do not want to do a lot of cranking with the starter to keep water from flooding any cylinders with open exhaust valves, shut off the thruhull and open as soon as it starts. Check your battery voltage, the battery connections and cables, if it's spinning good check the fuel solenoid to be sure it's locking the lever in the on position, it may pull it back but not to the stop. I've had all theses problems at one time or another except the bad sender and plugged exhaust elbow, do some checks and if you have a question just ask, good luck


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1 starter spinning
I'm not sure if it is but I presume it is . It starts the ford leeman easily .
2 on push down of the pre heat switch there was definitely NO power to the heater plugs . So since I've posted I changed out the solenoid for what I thought was a new one . ( it came with the boat but had definitely never been fitted as far as I could see . )
So after fitting I held down the pre heat again and obviously I had power to the left (that's permanent ) and I had power to the front two terminals , but no power to the right one , I presume that's the heater plugs wire ? As there was still no power to them.
Now I did put a temporary direct 12v feed to the heater plugs and for the first time I got a little noise change on starting .
I'm trying to establish if one of those other front soliniod wires are cancelling the soliniod cos something is wrong .
3 no air , I'm getting great fuel out of everything when bled.
4 I spent 2 days getting to that exhaust elbow and taking it off , to find it fine. We did think that might have been the problem,
Question is there any other thing to do with exhaust that might be causing it ? Faulty elbow sensor ? (Just put a brand new one on)

Only just turned water off so thanks for that .
At the minute ( and don't have heart attacks ) I've mounted my temporary heater plug wire to the front terminal on the soliniod that had power when the pre heat was pressed down , but at the minute I'm trying to charge the batteries to get some power in , until I get a reply from you about my findings .
Thanks so much ,
So what's the prognosis now doctor ?
Woody

[Lodesman]

Get a new preheat solenoid - don't bypass it.

[Lodesman]

Is the start panel on the engine or is it remote? If remote, have you ensured the kill switch on the genny is in the run position (up iirc)?

When you push down the preheat switch, does the lift pump run?

[woodyapex]

The lift pump works perfect , but the heater plugs, only the first ( left hand one ) is getting warm / hot . I don't think the solaniod is broke but is there something that cancels the solaniods actions if alls not well .?
Thanks Woody

[TheThunderbird]

A pre-heater helps out, but does not make ignition impossible, if out of order (and, 1st one got hot...)

I still bet air in the circuit. Also, the hose pipes can bleed, but can take in some air, if old...

So....
I would try operating with a new hose held manually into a jerrycan of fresh fuel...

And, of course, having all heaters in order is something to get done anyway

When I resuscitated my Fisher Panda, I had to change solenoid pump and fuel hose pipe...

[brantleychuck]

So when you crank the engine ,can you see (whatever mechanism, ) most likely a electric solenoid that pulls the throttle open. Do you see it open the throttle? Or while having someone crank the engine pull the throttle open manually. You may need to remove the solenoid to do this.

Right now you are doing a bit of troubleshooting but you have also begun to replace parts randomly which is expensive and so many time fruitless. It's pretty warm where you are, the engine should start without the glow plugs working. At the very least you should be getting lots of smoke( un burnt diesel) coming out the exhaust while cranking. This would confirm fuel delivery to combustion chamber. Did you pull a injector and crank engine to confirm fuel delivery to combustion chamber? Remember, if the throttle is closed no fuel will spray out nozzle.

Good luck


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[woodyapex]

Great
I realise changing out parts could be expencive but now at the end of the day all the service parts are new and it will be a bit more piece of mind when it's running .

But there is a "purple wire " from the soliniod , when pre heat was pushed it did not put power to the heater plugs . Now does that purple wire go via another switch before it goes to the heater plugs .
To confirm even though I put the soliniod end of the wire direct to live the glow plug end did not have power .
And two of the glow plugs are definitely dead , I've tested them .
Is it sounding like injectors at fault here . I've not had them out yet as I know how hard it can be sometimes and a broken one could prove very bad .
Thanks

[Lodesman]

There should be a wiring diagram in your operators manual. It should be a 12 gauge purple and red wire from the solenoid to the glow plugs. That's fed from a 12ga red wire that comes from the 20A breaker. The purple and white 14ga wire comes from the preheat switch, and the remaining wire (red 14ga) should go through a 10A breaker to connect downstream with the 14ga purple wire that supplies power to the lift pump and fuel solenoid - if your engine has had the modification advised in the service bulletin I posted, this wire connects directly to the fuel solenoid.

[TheThunderbird]

Oops.. it looked like you had pulled out the plugs, yes... but not the injectors....

Can you check what gets out the exhaust?

Water and unburnt fuel? Or, just water!?

Any smoke? And which color?

We presume that cranking didnt produce any detonation...yet...

We should also consider that corrosion may have developed inside the engine if unused for long....