Volvo Penta 2002 Blow By

[arecuk]

guys,

on my cape dory 28, currently in honduras, I struggle with engine, volvo penta 2002

for a long time I know there is a problem with low compression as the engine did not start up without starting fluid ... so far, starting fluid did the trick ... I plan to overhaul the engine in mexico in november but I have to get there first

so whats happening ... there is a blow by at two places:
- rocker cover gasket - blow by and oil leak
- around injector, above locking nut - blow by and oil leak
- see attached screenshot please

the question is, how difficult it is to fix those two issues? can I do it as a non-mechanic? ... I think I can get here new cover gasket or use some special temporary glow but Im afraid of removing the cover as I could end up with non-working engine and that would be the worst situation ever

and regarding blow by around injector I have no idea whats wrong here ...

appreciate your suggestions, tomas

[DougR]

Valve Cover- Remove the decompression lever, remove the valve cover and install a new valve cover gasket, or if no gasket is available, clean up everything including the old gasket and re install with a sealant to stop the leak.

Leak above the injector nut- The only leak possible here is a fuel leak. Loosen and back off the fuel pipe nut and examine the taper on the high pressure fuel line end fitting. If the end fitting has not been damaged, make sure the taper on the pipe end fitting seats into the injector taper properly and tighten the nut to the proper torque. This should stop the leak. If it doesn't stop the leak it might be necessary to replace the high pressure fuel line.

Starting- Avoid starting fluid! Try to start the engine using the "cold start function". This means :
1. Advance the throttle to 1/3 to 1/2 throttle
2. Pull the stop cable all the way out, and then push it all the way back in. This sets the governor to the cold start position, retarding the injection timing and increasing the fuel quantity.
3. Start the engine.

DougR

[arecuk]

Hello dough!

Thank you very much! Cover gasket i should be able to fix myself.

Injector - there is no diesel leak, i just feel stream of air coming from the top of the injector ... Its tight enough

Starting fluid - i know i should avoid it but then the engine does not start. it turns over though. This is my long term issue, dont know where the problem is. Obviously low compression - but how it happens? I thought about head gasket but Apart from the oil leak around cover gasket the engine body is clean and dry, no leaks. So head gasket should be alright?

[Wotname]

The head gasket can leak between cylinders or between cylinder and internal water or passages but most likely you just have low compression due to worn / broken rings.

How many years and hours on the engine?

Instead of using starting fluid, try to pour / spray oil into the cylinders before a cold start if the cold start technique mentioned above does not work. The oil will seal the rings a little and increase compression for a few revolutions during start.

[arecuk]

well, Im sorry how to do 'try to pour / spray oil into the cylinders'?

btw, I use cold start always

also, I noticed very slight oil leak in exhaust

[DougR]

If you are using the cold start procedure and the engine still won't start, it may be, as mentioned, that the engine is getting very worn. However, it may be that the compression is low because the valve adjustment has gotten tight. I suggest doing a valve adjustment, as you need to take the valve cover off anyway to fix the oil leak at the valve cover gasket.

As far as an air leak around the injector, I don't know where you would get a stream of air at the top of the injector.......but it is possible to have a combustion leak around the injector and injectior tube. The injector sits in a copper tube that is swedged into the head, and the combustion gasses are sealed by the contact of the bottom of the injector and the inside bottom surface of the copper tube. It's possible to have corrosion in the bottom of the copper tube, allowing leakage up past the injector. You should be able to test this by putting a few drops of oil around the base of the injector while the engine is running. If it's leaking the oil will spray up and you will see it. If it isn't leaking it won't hurt anything if the oil runs down around the injector.

A leak around the injector will require the injector to be removed and the tube cleaned up or replaced. Replacing the copper tube requires special tools and is best done by a qualified technician. It can be done with the head on the engine if all goes well, but if things don't go well sometimes the head has to come off.

Give the valves an adjustment and see if that helps.
DougR

[Kestrahl]

We had to replace the copper injector sleeves in our 2003.
They wear out and we had gas coming up past one of the injectors. The engine would actually run fine and start fine.
Volvo have a took to get the sleeves out and other tools to get them in again. You can also buy the tools from Volvo and do it yourself.
I just took the head of the engine and sent it to Volvo, they replaced the three injector sleeves and cleaned the head up for $260 USD in Malaysia. The new head gasket set cost more!

[arecuk]

thanks a lot for your comments guys ... I checked advices also in engine manual:
- when reinstalling injection pumps the so called soft shims must be used against the engine block ... place the hard shim between the two soft ones and install the pump

so I suspect this might be the problem? shims might be worn out? as Kestrahl mentioned in previous comment:
- We had to replace the copper injector sleeves in our 2003.

further in the manual is stated:
- on later version engine an O-ring was introduced as a seal between the injection pump and the block ... in this case use onky hard shims

so perhaps this O-ring might be the source of blow by around injector

[DougR]

The shims and O rings referred to in the shop manual are located between the two high pressure injection pumps and the area of the engine block that the pumps are mounted on. The shims are used to control injection timing and don't have anything to do with blow-by, and they won't wear out.

DougR

[ErikFinn]

"Blow" at injector is exhaust gas. When I first dealt with this issue I thought it must be something rare. Well, after a few google searches it turns out it's not rare at all. Please use the search tool and also try google. You will find some answers.

[Bill Seal]

If you pour oil into the cylinders you might get a hydrostatic lock and destroy the engine.
Good excuse to replace it with a yanmar
I guess you could spin it over with the valves lifted.


On another topic, my MD11C is barfing trans oil out the rear seal. Is it possible to fix this without pulling the tranny?

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by Bill Seal

On another topic, my MD11C is barfing trans oil out the rear seal. Is it possible to fix this without pulling the tranny?

If you're a contortionist, and can separate the companion flanges about 6-8 inches (the output flange has to come off) you should be able to get the old rear seal out. Then you still have to get the new one in correctly... I've done it on cars, laying on the ground, with (relatively) good access and it's kind of a pita. On most small boats I've seen, it would be a real pita, but probably doable. Keep in mind that there may be a groove worn in the output shaft that might have to be addressed as well.

Would be better to start your own thread about it though.

[arecuk]

I did some googling and you seem to be right, here is good discussion:
- Leaking injector sleeve / good old Volvo 2003 [Archive] - Yachting and Boating World Forums

So I guess I need to:
- replace injector sleeves
- rebed injectors and valves
- perhaps replace piston rings

And then engine should supposedly start easily!

Also, do you agree is the following worth trying?
- On a previous 2002, leaking fuel and exhaust from the injector sleeve was cured by a judicous tap with a hammer on the top of the injector. Protect the threads on the injector. This is probably worthwhile to try, just before removing the head.
- A wallop with a hammer to reseat the injector, would be a good idea anyway. Use a copper hammer or "dead blow" hammer, then the shock doesn't bounce, it's an old trick, but not known/used much these days.

If you agree how exactly it should be done? Remove the bolts on the injector and then tap in with hammer?

[Doug Brown]

If you have the injector out, put a SMALL amount of #1 Permatex on the injector nozzle case tip right where it goes into the main body of the injector. This will help seal off any small leak.

Another thing to check is the fuel injector return line. Sometimes the little bolt and washers come loose or don't seat up right and you can get air/fuel leaking from there. Worth while checking.

To seal up worn rings and other worn items (bearings) inside the engine, add a can of: Automotive Restore Products "Engine Restorer & Lubricant" It comes in sizes for 4, 6 and 8 cylinder engines and works for both gasoline or diesel engines. It cost's about $6 for the 4 cylinders size can.

On your engine, I'd buy the 4 cylinder size can and use a whole can. When you do the next oil change, you would only need 1/2 of a can. You just pour it in the engine - it mixes with the diesel engine oil. This stuff really works!! It takes about 3 to 4 hours to start working, and after about 10 or 12 hours you should see a pretty big improvement

The other thing you can do is switch over to straight 30 weight oil. Make sure it is diesel grade oil. Shell Rotella oil is excellent and you can find it world wide.

Between the "Engine Restorer" and the 30-wt oil, you will have enough compression for the engine to "cold start" without starting fluid.

------------------------------------------------------------
When you decided to remove the head to replace the sleeves, you don't need the special Volvo tools to get the sleeves out or to put them back in IF you have the head off.

You can make a punch to drive out the old injector sleeves by grinding down a steel punch, or have one turn in a lather. You put the punch into the injector nozzle hole and give it a few taps and the copper sleeve will come out.

To re-seat the new injector sleeve you can use a long socket the fits fairly snuggly into the injector sleeve and give it a couple of taps with a hammer until the tip of the copper sleeve comes out into the combustion chamber. Once that has happened, give it about 2 or 3 more hits to insure it has totally bottomed out in the cylinder head.

As I remember there is a o-ring that goes on the sleeve, so don't forget to put it on before you install the new copper sleeve!

Once the new sleeve is in, you have to trim off the excess that is sticking out into the combustion chamber. I use a Dremel tool to VERY CAREFULLY grind the excess off, but you could use a drill motor with a small grinder bit.

[arecuk]

>> "Engine Restorer & Lubricant
Im already using Bardal 2 - is it the same stuff?

>> the fuel injector return line
I checked that couple of times and all fuel lines seem to be OK, no leaks around