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Old 25-09-2011, 12:06   #46
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Re: If You're Thinking Yanmar, Think Twice

That's a very good point and would go a way toward explaining why they had nothing smaller than 75 bhp two years ago and simply "absorbed a line" from VW.

I find some aspects of consolidation in the marine industry a touch confusing. Don't get me started on Raymarine!
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Old 26-09-2011, 19:35   #47
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Re: If You're Thinking Yanmar, Think Twice

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Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
When I cite "big, stupid and torquey" as desirable traits of marine diesels, this is what I mean. "Big" means "cruise at 2,100 rpm/5.5 knots for literally days while transiting the Doldrums...don't touch the throttle and change the oil afterwards". By "stupid", I mean naturally aspirated and with few electronics to melt or fail when wet. By "torquey"...see "big".

There are reasons to choose a racehorse, and reasons to choose a plowhorse.
Well said!

I have recently retired, again, and closed my business of repairing marine engines and gears. I stopped working on the "Green Griefs" years ago due to the ridiculous prices of parts. Two years ago, I stopped yanmars for the same reasons. IMHO, diesel engines for displacement hull sailboats should be "plow horses", like the Perkins 4-236 in my boat of 29 years.
Ma Perkins pushes Satori's 38,000 pounds at 6.2 knots, while consuming only 1.1 GPH at 1,550 RPMs as I power a 8KW generator off the front end.

After 3,600 hours, she may use one quart of oil between changes. A complete rebuild kit for the Perkins 4-236 is less than $1,000 USD.

We love our old "Plow Horse". She will take us anywhere we desire to go.
But, we do have a SAILBOAT, designed by Bill Lapworth.

Tom & Bobbie
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Old 26-09-2011, 20:14   #48
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Re: If You're Thinking Yanmar, Think Twice

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Not to lowjack the thread, but...

Not sure what MB you have, but parts for the one I had were extremely high, as I expected them to be.
Well, we have a few:

1959 190SL
2004 CLK320
2005 E500
2006 SKL350

And we've had a few others:
1966 250S
1992 300E
1994 C280

Brake pads for our current cars (other than the 190SL, for which most parts - other than chrome - are insanely cheap), are $39 a set. Sensors for them are $0.60 each. Put a radiator in my E500, $129. Transmission mount for my E500: $32. Conversely, window regulator for my daughter's VW: $340. On my E500 - assuming I'd have to replace it - it's about $85. If you got scr3w3d on parts, you must have had a bad dealership. Or, you owned an AMG or another rare car.
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Old 26-09-2011, 20:18   #49
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Re: If You're Thinking Yanmar, Think Twice

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Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
When I cite "big, stupid and torquey" as desirable traits of marine diesels, this is what I mean. "Big" means "cruise at 2,100 rpm/5.5 knots for literally days while transiting the Doldrums...don't touch the throttle and change the oil afterwards". By "stupid", I mean naturally aspirated and with few electronics to melt or fail when wet. By "torquey"...see "big".

There are reasons to choose a racehorse, and reasons to choose a plowhorse.
Absolutely right on.

We have a 75hp Yanmar turbo. What a STUPID idea, putting a turbo into a sailboat. A few weeks ago, I "enjoyed" the chore of removing the turbo, which had frozen up, cleaning it (hello EZ Off!), and reassembling it. Now I make a point to run the pi$$ out of it each time we're out. Which is just stupid. At 2000 rpms, we run about 6.5 kts. At 2400, 7+ kts. At 3500 rpms, 8.5 kts. Why pick up 2 kts for 3X the fuel consumption? But you HAVE to do this to keep the turbo clean!
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Old 26-09-2011, 20:46   #50
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Re: If You're Thinking Yanmar, Think Twice

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We have a 75hp Yanmar turbo. What a STUPID idea, putting a turbo into a sailboat.
After a certain size, normally aspirated diesels can't cut the emission standards.

Is clean air such a STUPID idea?
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Old 26-09-2011, 21:02   #51
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Re: If You're Thinking Yanmar, Think Twice

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Is clean air such a STUPID idea?
Oh, if only you could have seen us the few weeks before I pulled the turbo off. We certainly didn't have any mosquitoes nearby!

"Clean" and diesel seems to = no particulate, to most folks.
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Old 26-09-2011, 21:09   #52
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Re: If You're Thinking Yanmar, Think Twice

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Oh, if only you could have seen us the few weeks before I pulled the turbo off. We certainly didn't have any mosquitoes nearby!

"Clean" and diesel seems to = no particulate, to most folks.
Clearly there are a few bugs in the theory.

I wanted a normally aspirated diesel in my current boat, but was informed that it was no longer possible to purchase such an engine large enough to push such a boat, thanks to tougher emissions standards, which necessitated turbo charging in larger engines.

A few years later, however, I'm glad I was forced to move up to a turbo Yanmar. It doesn't have that rattly sound that characterized older engines, and when I really need the power, it really has it.

But, yes, every once in a while you have to take it up to higher RPMs for a few minutes.
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Old 27-09-2011, 09:43   #53
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Re: If You're Thinking Yanmar, Think Twice

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Clearly there are a few bugs in the theory.

I wanted a normally aspirated diesel in my current boat, but was informed that it was no longer possible to purchase such an engine large enough to push such a boat, thanks to tougher emissions standards, which necessitated turbo charging in larger engines.

A few years later, however, I'm glad I was forced to move up to a turbo Yanmar. It doesn't have that rattly sound that characterized older engines, and when I really need the power, it really has it.

But, yes, every once in a while you have to take it up to higher RPMs for a few minutes.
I've also invested in some Yanmar Turbo Wash, and use it regularly as directed. I swear is smells JUST LIKE "Fantastic" spray cleaner. But don't take that as an endorsement to use Fantastic.
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Old 27-09-2011, 10:42   #54
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Re: If You're Thinking Yanmar, Think Twice

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Originally Posted by oldcal46skipper View Post
Well said!

I have recently retired, again, and closed my business of repairing marine engines and gears. I stopped working on the "Green Griefs" years ago due to the ridiculous prices of parts. Two years ago, I stopped yanmars for the same reasons. IMHO, diesel engines for displacement hull sailboats should be "plow horses", like the Perkins 4-236 in my boat of 29 years.
Ma Perkins pushes Satori's 38,000 pounds at 6.2 knots, while consuming only 1.1 GPH at 1,550 RPMs as I power a 8KW generator off the front end.

After 3,600 hours, she may use one quart of oil between changes. A complete rebuild kit for the Perkins 4-236 is less than $1,000 USD.

We love our old "Plow Horse". She will take us anywhere we desire to go.
But, we do have a SAILBOAT, designed by Bill Lapworth.

Tom & Bobbie
Not sure there has ever been an engine as good as that one. It'll go forever. I guess even Caterpillar relabeled that engine for a while and sold it as a Cat. While I am a clean environment supporter, I am also practical. I just dont believe that any kind of emmissions for Diesel pleasure boats should even be on the radar. The rec boating emmissions have to be a small percentage of even 1%. Cars, coal plants, diesel power plants etc etc are huge, and of course all the non green countries like China pollute the whole world. To me it's the 80/20 rule, or in this case more like the 99/1 rule: take care of 80% of the problem and the rest will take care of itself. BTW all those jobs that went overseas to China not only cause a lot of pollution, but we only charge 2% tariff for the returning goods, and they charge us 20% tariff to send goods into China....
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Old 27-09-2011, 11:26   #55
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Re: If You're Thinking Yanmar, Think Twice

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After a certain size, normally aspirated diesels can't cut the emission standards.

Is clean air such a STUPID idea?
Well, if more biodiesel were available and marine engines could run it without rotting hoses and seals and if the exhausts were BlueTec equipped, we wouldn't have even that.

My new Beta 60 is Tier Something-rated (can't be arsed to look it up at the moment), so I would wager it's considerably cleaner and more economical than the 1988 Westerbeke it replaced. Given that I am conservative in my use of the boat engine, and given I'm 50 and have never owned a car (or really driven much at all), I feel OK about my polluting karma when I hit the start button.

So stupidity is relative. Coal may have been burnt to provide the electricity that helped to make my solar panels, after all, and gases were burnt to weld together their frame.
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Old 08-02-2014, 10:17   #56
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Re: If You're Thinking Yanmar, Think Twice

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you could bolt a gear to a gear. Take old gear or new and line it up shaft wise so that the center is perfectly aligned.
Drill around periphery and tap holes. Bolt the gears back to back.
Without seeing them I am just offering ideas.

The other shaft collar idea, if the 2 shafts line up with a tight fit to the collar and it is robust, it will run true. Might have to cut back shaft of new pump to fit, I bet a machinist seeing these parts could make it function.
Dodgy brothers approach. Meshing gears require finer tolerances under load than bolting will provide. Either rwplace with OEM or equivalent or blank and replace with a remote mounted or electric option.

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Old 08-02-2014, 10:37   #57
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Re: If You're Thinking Yanmar, Think Twice

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Dodgy brothers approach. Meshing gears require finer tolerances under load than bolting will provide. Either rwplace with OEM or equivalent or blank and replace with a remote mounted or electric option.

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Old 08-02-2014, 10:50   #58
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Re: If You're Thinking Yanmar, Think Twice

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Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
When I cite "big, stupid and torquey" as desirable traits of marine diesels, this is what I mean. "Big" means "cruise at 2,100 rpm/5.5 knots for literally days while transiting the Doldrums...don't touch the throttle and change the oil afterwards". By "stupid", I mean naturally aspirated and with few electronics to melt or fail when wet. By "torquey"...see "big".

There are reasons to choose a racehorse, and reasons to choose a plowhorse.
I guess my 4JH2E Yanmar (19 years 2840 hours) is a little different than those others are describing:

Torque curve is almost flat from 2000 RPM to 3500 RPM (76 lb feet +/- 3 lb feet).
The curve shows 71 lb feet at 1800 RPM increasing to a max of 79 lb-feet from 2300 to 3100 RPM. So you have 90% of max torque at 1800 RPM.

I run the engine at 2200 RPM for days at a time with boat moving at 6.2 knots and 0.75 GPH fuel burn.

Yes - the Yanmar will rev very high for a diesel. I've seen mine peg the tach at 4,000 RPM but they also run very nicely at lower RPM as long as the engine is brought up to 2900 of so for a couple minutes every three to five hours.
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Old 08-02-2014, 11:26   #59
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Re: If You're Thinking Yanmar, Think Twice

tsk tsk tsk, buying spare parts, how primitive and old fashioned is that?!

Just buy a 3D printer and print them!
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