Fuel pump for fuel polishing system - Continuous duty pump necessary?

[mvmojo]

As posted before, we use a Gulf Coast "paper towel" filter system which has worked flawlessly for over 15 years. The roll of Bounty paper towels effectively has sub micron filtration. The Walbro pump is rated at 120 gph but really only pumps about 60-80 gph. That's perfect, because the longer the fuel stays in the filter, the better the filtration. We circulate each of 4 tanks for 24 hours every year. We also have a Racor 500 as a backup but I can't remember ever using it!

The manifold system, mainly 3-way valves, looks complicated, but it's actually fairly simple and offers tremendous flexibility and redundancy. We can recirculate fuel thru either or both filters and can run through either or both filters. Either filter can be isolated to change the filter while running on the other one. Whenever underway, our fuel is always being filtered by the Gulf Coast filter before going through the on-engine filter. I change the on-engine filter about once every 5 years "just because". I cut it open after each change and it always looks like new! Here's a picture of the Gulf Coast/Racor valving. Again, it looks complicated, but in reality, I can turn one valve to switch between polishing and running.

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by mvmojo

As posted before, we use a Gulf Coast "paper towel" filter system which has worked flawlessly for over 15 years. The roll of Bounty paper towels effectively has sub micron filtration. The Walbro pump is rated at 120 gph but really only pumps about 60-80 gph. That's perfect, because the longer the fuel stays in the filter, the better the filtration. We circulate each of 4 tanks for 24 hours every year. We also have a Racor 500 as a backup but I can't remember ever using it!

(clip valve/manifold description)

Attachment 174138

Very nice, and your experience with a polishing system relative to a Racor echoes ours though your experience is a bit longer.

From my polisher's perspective, which is separate (yours seems to be inline?) from the engine supply, knowing that we took a great deal of grunge out of the tank following our wreck and the well-sloshed fuel tank on the return trip, necessitated by those filters packing up (we have a vac gauge to tell us when we need to change), I'm wondering how yours does in that regard (if you ever get to the stage of enough grunge to slow it down).

I also wonder about filter changes. In our case, we have petcocks at the bottom, which allow us to drain a bit from the canister, which then drops (tee handle at the top) without worrying about spilling. Pulling the filter out over a container for the diesel in the canister is pretty simple. In our case, as the system is separate, entirely, from the engine lines, other than tees, refilling the canisters is a matter of letting the pump run until it stops chattering.

I can only imagine the amount of fuel which would persist in a full roll of paper toweling; how does yours change out? Your canister looks pristine, so I presume it's pretty tidy to change.

And, does yours have a micron rating - that is, does a roll of Bounty (is that a significant item, or can any one work?) filter to x or y microns like ours (in our case, 30/10, in series; the longer they stay in, the more they filter, as the particulate impedes progress, so in the end we might be down to 5, say, microns, or even lower). But like you, in our 10mu Racors, we've never changed. We have yet to change the engine filter (it was changed before we set out in 2007), either, though I suppose I should, as it's a 2mu, and it's possible that it MIGHT have accumulated enough stuff to clog up at some point.

I'm not a candidate for one of these, as we are already set up, but I can surely see that others might be. You have the same pump as we, but it's no longer available. The other poster with the amazing manifold can (maybe did, don't recall) perhaps tell us/others what that pump is, for those wanting to design their own system.

Thanks for the post!

L8R

Skip

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Capn Jimbo

Compare to these McGuyver'd DIY setups. A flow of fuel is drawn from the bottom of the tank (on the mistaken premise that that is where the "gunk" collects), passed through a filter and then returned and refouled with the unfiltered fuel in the tank. Multiple passes may reduce the the percentage of contamination but without complete removal, isolation and return the fuel can never be completely clean.

Water collects at the bottom of my tank which thanks to the designer has the bottom of the tank sloping towards a tap for draining.

Originally Posted by Capn Jimbo

The poster who noted that an existing Racor already does this kind of recirculating is exactly right. The great majority of fuel - under high pressure - is then returned to the tank, 80% would not be an unfair estimate. Our existing Racors already "polish" the fuel. Running dual Racors, esp. equipped with a valve system to switch Racors is a fine idea and just as effective as these DIY, unproven contraptions.-

Nope, I disagree, fuel for the engine filters isn't collected from the bottom of the tank as the fuel pick up should have a space above the bottom of the tank so crud and water isn't picked up. Nor is the fuel under high pressure, its not. The fuel return line is free to flow fuel back to empty into the tank, there is no high pressure.

Originally Posted by Capn Jimbo

To me, good maintenance and a good and regular replacement of filters, along with an annual commercial blast and clean will do as well, maybe better.

Certainly agree with changing the filters, but watching the water separator DIY polishing plus looking in the tank will save on needless commercial polishing.

Originally Posted by Capn Jimbo

But hey, whatever floats yer boat. If we want to believe that a DIY "polishing" system does better than our existing, in line single or dual Racors, then have at it hoss.

I don't think better, but DIY is sufficient and for those sailing away from normal support services like commercial polishing companies, then there is no choice.

Originally Posted by Capn Jimbo

Recirculate your clean polished fuel back into your dirty tank and dirty fuel.

Or once you have got it clean, keep it that way with a spot of DIY. BTW out of interest, how much is yacht tank scrub and clean? the DIY approach is all about keeping water out and filtering debris, not high pressure cleaning the inside of the tank to remove the gunge. Even the professionals struggle with this. However, man armed with a 2" wall paper scraper is king.

One thing missing from this thread, when you by the filters, buy a new o ring or sealing wash for the fuel cap, oh and a spare. Keep the water out of the tank goes a long way to ensuring you don't have problems to start with.

[mvmojo]

Originally Posted by skipgundlach

Very nice, and your experience with a polishing system relative to a Racor echoes ours though your experience is a bit longer.

From my polisher's perspective, which is separate (yours seems to be inline?) from the engine supply, knowing that we took a great deal of grunge out of the tank following our wreck and the well-sloshed fuel tank on the return trip, necessitated by those filters packing up (we have a vac gauge to tell us when we need to change), I'm wondering how yours does in that regard (if you ever get to the stage of enough grunge to slow it down).
When I bought the boat she had about 600 gallons of fuel on-board (we carry 1,450 gal). The original Racor was clogging up fairly often. I had a fuel polisher come in and clean all the fuel and clean the tanks as best he could.
Still had problems, just not as often. When I installed my current setup a couple years later, my fuel was jet black. I ran each tank through the Gulf Coast Filter system 24/7 for a week. I changed out the paper towel filter as needed (maybe 4 times over maybe 800 gallons of fuel filtered. This completely cleared up the fuel. As mentioned in my previous post, we now filter each tank for 24 hours maybe once a year. Our fuel stays clear and bright red all the time. No more fuel problems. The valving set up gives me the option of excluding or including either the Gulf Coast Filter, the Racor 500, both or neither when running. I run the Gulf Coast Filter in-line so fuel is continuously polished when we're underway. I can't recall ever needing the Racor, but it's there just in case!

I also wonder about filter changes. In our case, we have petcocks at the bottom, which allow us to drain a bit from the canister, which then drops (tee handle at the top) without worrying about spilling. Pulling the filter out over a container for the diesel in the canister is pretty simple. In our case, as the system is separate, entirely, from the engine lines, other than tees, refilling the canisters is a matter of letting the pump run until it stops chattering.

I can only imagine the amount of fuel which would persist in a full roll of paper toweling; how does yours change out? Your canister looks pristine, so I presume it's pretty tidy to change.
I have a lot of space above the filter so it's easy to just pull the paper towel roll out and leave it sitting at an angle over the filter canister so it can drain. Like this:


And, does yours have a micron rating - that is, does a roll of Bounty (is that a significant item, or can any one work?) filter to x or y microns like ours (in our case, 30/10, in series; the longer they stay in, the more they filter, as the particulate impedes progress, so in the end we might be down to 5, say, microns, or even lower). But like you, in our 10mu Racors, we've never changed. We have yet to change the engine filter (it was changed before we set out in 2007), either, though I suppose I should, as it's a 2mu, and it's possible that it MIGHT have accumulated enough stuff to clog up at some point.
There's no specific micron rating but Gulf Coast Filters told me that they have found that a roll of paper towels ends up providing sub micron filtration. We run all our fuel through the Gulf Coast Filter and the couple of times I've cut open an on-engine filter to check it, it's looked like new. I don't think Bounty brand paper towels are required, but that's what Gulf Coast suggested and the difference in cost between Bounty and any other brand isn't significant when considering what purpose built filters like Racor sell for.

I'm not a candidate for one of these, as we are already set up, but I can surely see that others might be. You have the same pump as we, but it's no longer available. The other poster with the amazing manifold can (maybe did, don't recall) perhaps tell us/others what that pump is, for those wanting to design their own system.
The original Walbro pump is no longer made but there is a substitute available from Depco Pumps. We replaced the one in the picture in 2011 with the newer pump.

Hope the above helps!

[evm1024]

I also use a Gulf Coast filtration system. I use the smaller filter that uses a roll of TP rather than a roll of paper towels.

These filtration systems work very well. The amount of filtration surface in a roll or TP or Paper Towels far, far exceeds the filtration surface on even the biggest Racor....

[Capn Jimbo]

YMMV, and I'm biased, but if you're merely going to series-mount Racors, IN THE SUPPLY LINE, when it (if) clogs, you're stuck...

Agreed, if you consider having to change the Racor filter being "stuck". Most would prefer a clogged Racor than a clogged injecter, eh? Of course. As noted though, arranging the dual Racors in a separate circuit, valved so that if the operational unit clogs, the flow can easily and quickly changed to the 2nd Racor is a lovely option.

In research we soon learn that correlation is not cause. Now if anyone knows of a double blind study of these DIY continuous " systems vs a well maintained single or double Racor with scheduled professional polishing, do share lol. I'd have to believe that those who go to the trouble to create and run these DIY contraptions are a bit retentive, and would tend to be pretty attentive with maintenance and filter changes overall.

I hate to say it, but continous DIY polishers may be an expensive solution in search of a problem.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Capn Jimbo

I'd have to believe that those who go to the trouble to create and run these DIY contraptions are a bit retentive, and would tend to be pretty attentive with maintenance and filter changes overall.

I hate to say it, but continous DIY polishers may be an expensive solution in search of a problem.

I think that is a valid point, those who take the time maintain and do there own DIY polishing are also likely avoid a problem. Trouble is when you buy a secondhand boat you really don't know what is waiting in store for you.

How much is a professional clean? and how often do you do it, annually or say quarterly?

Pete

[Larry Florida]

Originally Posted by Capn Jimbo

I hate to say it, but continous DIY polishers may be an expensive solution in search of a problem.

Probably true in the US as fuel quality is high. In some parts of the world less so. Have read numerous accounts of bad fuel on this forum.

[noelex 77]

Nigel Calder said that 90% of marine diesel engine problems are due to dirty fuel. I find it hard to believe the percentage is that high, but clean fuel is important.

Cruising sailors are finding increasing problems with diesel bug and it’s not till you have seen a fuel supply that clogs new filter after new filter in only 15 mins that you will appreciate the problem.

Fuel polishing, whether an intensive polish once a year, or something that is done at a lower level daily, is only one step, There are many other measures that are more important, but a fuel polishing system is not expensive to fit. A permant system requres little effort or maintence. If it only slightly reduces the chance of fuel related problems, or extends the time between the horrible job of manual tank cleaning it is worthwhile in my view.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Capn Jimbo

Agreed, if you consider having to change the Racor filter being "stuck". Most would prefer a clogged Racor than a clogged injecter, eh? Of course. As noted though, arranging the dual Racors in a separate circuit, valved so that if the operational unit clogs, the flow can easily and quickly changed to the 2nd Racor is a lovely option.

In research we soon learn that correlation is not cause. Now if anyone knows of a double blind study of these DIY continuous " systems vs a well maintained single or double Racor with scheduled professional polishing, do share lol. I'd have to believe that those who go to the trouble to create and run these DIY contraptions are a bit retentive, and would tend to be pretty attentive with maintenance and filter changes overall.

I hate to say it, but continous DIY polishers may be an expensive solution in search of a problem.

Sometimes you travel in places that just dont sell clean diesel, have you ever had to purchase diesel thats being scooped out of 44 gallon drums on the beach and filtered through a sock before going into your jerry cans?

Having a fuel polishing system that is completely isolated from your engine fuel lines allows you to run the fuel through a 2 micron filter for hours before it goes near your engine. Thats the problem and the fuel polishing system is the solution.

On my current boat i dont have one installed yet. I do have a walbro pump and racor 500 (2 micron)mounted on a board that i use to transfer from jerry cans to tank. Not perfect as the fuel only goes through this filter once .

Ive had to empty my tank (last boat) twice and filter fuel through 5 micron water filters while in very remote locations, this was prior to installing a polishing system similar to the one Nolex had on his last boat. This is a very messy job.

Fuel can not be to clean and you cant be to cautious.

[davil]

[QUOTE=daletournier;2681715]Sometimes you travel in places that just dont sell clean diesel, have you ever had to purchase diesel thats being scooped out of 44 gallon drums on the beach and filtered through a sock before going into your jerry cans?

=============================================
the only 2 times I have dirty fuel was driving 101 and fueling my car (diesel)in a truck stop (high volume sales,truckers etc.right)
Cost me a tow to have a diesel mechanic to change filters and empty tank.!!!
Second time picked up dirty fuel,San Diego before heading south of the border,have to change filters and polish tank in Mazatlan.
After those experiences,follow the two basic rules of survival at sea.
If did not came in thru your mouth do not use my head.!!!
Second rule,there shall be no diesel going into my tanks BEFORE going thru my BAJA FILTER.!!!!
I lived happily there after.
cheers

[daletournier]

[QUOTE=davil;2681792]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Sometimes you travel in places that just dont sell clean diesel, have you ever had to purchase diesel thats being scooped out of 44 gallon drums on the beach and filtered through a sock before going into your jerry cans?

=============================================
the only 2 times I have dirty fuel was driving 101 and fueling my car (diesel)in a truck stop (high volume sales,truckers etc.right)
Cost me a tow to have a diesel mechanic to change filters and empty tank.!!!
Second time picked up dirty fuel,San Diego before heading south of the border,have to change filters and polish tank in Mazatlan.
After those experiences,follow the two basic rules of survival at sea.
If did not came in thru your mouth do not use my head.!!!
Second rule,there shall be no diesel going into my tanks BEFORE going thru my BAJA FILTER.!!!!
I lived happily there after.
cheers

I know longer use the west marine or Mr funnel type filters. They are good for water but not particularly a fine filter, by memory i think they are 90 micron? Both of the dirty fuel times i mentioned the fuel had gone through one of these filters first.

[Kalimniosjohn]

I can’t understand any argument against having an on board fuel polishing system. This forum is called cruisers forum....people are cruising on their boats, often to very remote destinations where good clean fuel just isn’t easily available. If you get fuel with particles big enough to see with the naked eye wouldn’t you like to be able to filter it before sending it to your primary fuel system?

I personally feel that the way I’ve built my system is pretty close to ideal. I can filter the fuel in my main tanks as many times as I wish. Then when satisfied, filter it once more and send it to my day tank. This way I know only clean fuel is being drawn through my engine fuel lines and filters which greatly reduces the chances of the engine stopping due to being starved by clogged filters. It just makes sense to me.

[davil]

[QUOTE=daletournier;2681806]

Originally Posted by davil

I know longer use the west marine or Mr funnel type filters. They are good for water but not particularly a fine filter, by memory i think they are 90 micron? Both of the dirty fuel times i mentioned the fuel had gone through one of these filters first.

================================
the original Baja Filter not longer available (I believe))
what they sale as Baja Filter is just a funnel with a fine mesh.
The original that I still have had 3 layers two layers with different screen size and the last bottom tray will catch the water.

[Bleemus]

Practical Sailor did a test of funnels and Mr Funnel was the winner.