Ethanol?

[Scott Berg]

Gin and Tonic, Good
Wine and Beer, Good
Aged Whiskey, Very Good
Cognac, Excellent
oh, Gasohol? Crap!

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Scott Berg

Gin and Tonic, Good
Wine and Beer, Good
Aged Whiskey, Very Good
Cognac, Excellent
oh, Gasohol? Crap!

So why does 10% Ethanol work fine for most folks?

[Scott Berg]

Note sure it does
We rebuild a LOT of gummed up carbs...

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by thomm225

So why does 10% Ethanol work fine for most folks?

You keep saying that, and I suspect that in most of the South we do not have ETH in our fuel, only a few States mandate it by law, and I don't think Fl and maybe Ga is on the list.
When you look at the sticker on the gas pump you will notice it says MAY contain up to 10% ETH, not does contain.
Talking to our local Chevron jobber here years ago (Jobbers add the ETH, it is not shipped in the pipeline with the ETH, that causes pipeline problems, the ETH is trucked in and mixed locally)
Anyway according to him the ETH is quite expensive, that for it to make sense financially it takes close to $4 a gl gasoline, where we were at a few years ago, remember?
Anyway I'd suspect that unless mandated to do so, the fuel companies are not adding ETH if it costs them more to do so, that would of course cut profits.

But that is a theory, and theories are like opinions, and we all know what those are like, right?

[a64pilot]

A very quick Google turned this up, I haven't read it yet
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...uire-e10-blend

On edit, let the cost of oil double again, and I bet you will see a lot more ETH, but now I believe it costs more per gallon than base stock gasoline

OK double edit, to test for ETH all you need is a glass jar and a little water. Mix the gas with the water after noting exactly what the water level is, shake the snot out if it, let it settle and if the water level rises, you have ETH in the fuel. Water mixes with the ETH and takes it out of suspension, so it appears that the water level rises, it's a water and ETH mix of course.
There are test kits too obviously if you don't trust the canning jar method, a canning jar is graduated and cheap, perfect test jar.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

You keep saying that, and I suspect that in most of the South we do no have ETH in our fuel, only a few States mandate it by law, and I don't think Fl and maybe Ga is on the list.
When you look at the sticker on the gas pump you will notice it says MAY contain up to 10% ETH, not does contain.
Talking to our local Chevron jobber here years ago (Jobbers add the ETH, it is not shipped in the pipeline with the ETH, that causes pipeline problems, the ETH is trucked in and mixed locally)
Anyway according to him the ETH is quite expensive, that for it to make sense financially it takes close to $4 a gl gasoline, where we were at a few years ago, remember?
Anyway I'd suspect that unless mandated to do so, the fuel companies are not adding ETH if it costs them more to do so, that would of course cut profits.

But that is a theory, and theories are like opinions, and we all know what those are like, right?

Great source you have there.............

All I'm saying is that I've had no problems with it ..............but then again I don't "store" my engines for the winter

But I do use the 10% eth fuel I bought in September to run them throughout the Winter months

[a64pilot]

See above, it may be that since FL repealed their law mandating ETH, that your getting pure gas, maybe.

[a64pilot]

I found all that out, and obtained a source of pure gas from the local Jobber years ago to run in my airplane, I put a 100 gl tank in my truck for the airplane and later the CC boat we dove off of.

He delivered fuel to many farms and would not send out the ETH fuel to the farms, reason is ETH is a very good solvent and any old tanks that you put ETH in had to be specially cleaned and their hoses and pumps replaced with those that were ETH compatible. Local farms when faced with that cost would just terminate their deliveries as farms really have very little use for gasoline anyway, likely more for the Wife's SUV than anything else.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Your experience must have been due to the age of your engines. (or lack of maintenance)

My outboard, weed whacker, and lawn mower all work fine using 10% Ethanol

Not sure why so many are having problems.............

The outboard is a 1998 Johnson 2-stroke, made by Suzuki. Well maintained, just not often used.

The other implements were older, seldom used. Not much maintenance to do on a weed whacker or leaf blower.

Aside from putzing with the carburetors when they wouldn't start (and sometimes replacing spark plugs during those episodes).

I would suspect the "seldom used" part was the more operative.

-Chris

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by thomm225

So why does 10% Ethanol work fine for most folks?

Not sure it does.

"Doing no permanent damage" isn't the same as "working fine."

If I ran our outboard every day, which means cycling through gas often, it'd be great. Our more normal routine, using it once every 2 months, not so much; our state-mandated 10% mixture wouldn't maintain integrity for that long.

Recycling gas early helped; it was as if I was running the outboard more often and cycling through gas faster. But that's not "working fine." And if I left it too long, had to remove out the carb and clean it... that's REALLY not "working fine."

I understand we can now buy very small quantities of straight gasoline at places like Home Depot... intended for small "lawn" implements and so forth. Expensive, and not particularly practical quantities...

-Chris

[a64pilot]

If you have access to it and have had problems with ETH, 100 LL, airplane gas works fine and has an extremely long storage life. I have run it for years in a Honda powered folding Dahon bicycle I have with no ill effects, it is a four stroke though.
My Mercury Verado which by all accounts is a very modern supercharged fuel injected four stroke let me down, only time I have ever been towed by a towing service. Where the low and high pressure fuel pumps reside, there is a float and a small fuel line that ETH ruined, a little research and it was a known problem that Mercury had a kit to fix, so sometimes even modern engines are not immune.

Explanation of the Mercury Verado fuel problem
http://www.veradoclub.com/index.php?topic=2450.0

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Not sure it does.

"Doing no permanent damage" isn't the same as "working fine."

If I ran our outboard every day, which means cycling through gas often, it'd be great. Our more normal routine, using it once every 2 months, not so much; our state-mandated 10% mixture wouldn't maintain integrity for that long.

Recycling gas early helped; it was as if I was running the outboard more often and cycling through gas faster. But that's not "working fine." And if I left it too long, had to remove out the carb and clean it... that's REALLY not "working fine."

I understand we can now buy very small quantities of straight gasoline at places like Home Depot... intended for small "lawn" implements and so forth. Expensive, and not particularly practical quantities...

-Chris

I think the problem for most is the lack of use. (like you mentioned)

My 2011 Mercury 5hp 4 stroke is the main engine on my sailboat so I use it at least enough to get out of my slip every time I sail

I also start my engine at least one every couple weeks all Winter. I get such a thrill that I have an outboard that actually starts easily most every time!!

I had lots of crappy outboards when I was young and after fishing 5-15 miles out in the Chesapeake Bay it could sometimes be an adventure getting one of them restarted or for that matter getting one started to get out there (same on Seaside)

I do use fuel bought in the fall though throughout the entire Winter and for the first few times out during the Spring depending on outboard usage.......whether or not I have to motor/motorsail back on a Sunday for work the next day.

I do add Sta-Bil to my tanks for the gas that sits all Winter which is only 2-3 gallons