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Old 12-12-2011, 07:06   #46
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Re: DIY Injection Pump Rebuild

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Originally Posted by svadagio View Post
Hi
I have a Perkins so maybe not the same. Helped a friend who was having desiel in the oil. We did not rebuild the whole pump. There are seals you can get to and replace without taking the whole thing down. Settings are not disturbed so you do not need the big tools. You might check the factory drawings or a shop that does the rebuilds. Maybe save some bucks. Also the shop I use will replace seals without a rebuild which is cheaper. But then maybe you are going somewhere far away and should rebuild to be sure. If you remove the pump, mark the position before removing.
Bob
Bob--

One can take such an approach. The problem is, however, that if one's seals are going--excluding perhaps the seals on the high pressure lines--one's bearings are likely going as well, as I discovered with my 4-108, so a partial rebuild may only be short lived. Given the liklihood, and the brain damage of installing and extracting the IP, would it not be wise to simply do the job right the first time?

FWIW...
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Old 12-12-2011, 07:15   #47
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Re: Injection pump rebuild DIY

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Yup...The shop that rebuilt my engine let me use his home made pump with gauge to pop test my injectors. It used Kerosene for the test. Let's face it, this kind of stuff isn't meant for everyone but it's not black magic either. Almost everyone I know that "had" to take their injectors to a shop, some how needed all new injectors. What do you think sailors did before internet while they were in remote areas while cruising?
There was sailing before the internet and al gore??
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Old 12-12-2011, 08:31   #48
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Re: DIY Injection Pump Rebuild

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One more thing, I used to have a sign in my shop, 25.00 per hr, 35.00 if you watch, 50.00 if you try to help !! 100.00 if you took it apart before you brought it in !! LOL Bob and Connie
As a corollary to that was a sign in a shop I was in that said "Mechanic Wanted: must look honest". Sorry could not resist.
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Old 12-12-2011, 09:37   #49
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Re: DIY Injection Pump Rebuild

Yes...Business owners forget it is the customer that keeps their doors open. If it's my nickle I expect at least a little kindness and honesty.
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Old 12-12-2011, 14:19   #50
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Re: DIY Injection Pump Rebuild

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Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
Bob--

One can take such an approach. The problem is, however, that if one's seals are going--excluding perhaps the seals on the high pressure lines--one's bearings are likely going as well, as I discovered with my 4-108, so a partial rebuild may only be short lived. Given the liklihood, and the brain damage of installing and extracting the IP, would it not be wise to simply do the job right the first time?

FWIW...
Can not say a seal going means the bearing is bad. Those bearings live in Diesel which is a good lub. The other side is engine oil. I think you should take into account the age of the pump since last rebuild etc and make a choice. Again if you are headed somewhere far away then for sure rebuild. Although I must say I have found no problem getting my Perkins worked on out here. If you are sailing on the bay!
Bob
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Old 16-12-2011, 11:55   #51
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Even the Pro's Don't Always Get it Right!

Well. It seems that relying on the professionals has gained me little/nothing. Wednesday I was called by the Perkins shop to say that our pump was ready. I picked it up--along with a box of additional parts, seals, gaskets, crush-washers et al, $949.00 US worth all up--and delivered all into the hands of the diesel mechanic at our boatyard. Earlier today, I go a call from the boatyard to the effect that although the engine started right up once re-assembled, that the idle couldn't be adjusted below 1500 rpm (its normally in the 650-750 range); the shut-off plunger would not, in fact, shut-off the engine; and, the throttle lever could be moved an inch or more from the idle position before the rpm picked up at all. So. Boatyard mechanic says Perkins shop screwed up; and, Perkins shop says Boatyard mechanic must have gotten debris into the fuel lines hence to the govenor and so screwed up the rebuilt pump. The shop says "bring it back and we'll retest it" and there is, of course, no doubt how that will turn out, eh?, as there is no "third party" capable of testing the device and rendering a judgement as to what's so. And of course, neither of these two parties has indicated any willingness to "adjust their charges" for the work...

Pehaps I should have simply done the job myself and taken my chances...
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Old 16-12-2011, 12:19   #52
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Re: Even the Pro's Don't Always Get it Right!

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Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
Well. It seems that relying on the professionals has gained me little/nothing. Wednesday I was called by the Perkins shop to say that our pump was ready. I picked it up--along with a box of additional parts, seals, gaskets, crush-washers et al, $949.00 US worth all up--and delivered all into the hands of the diesel mechanic at our boatyard. Earlier today, I go a call from the boatyard to the effect that although the engine started right up once re-assembled, that the idle couldn't be adjusted below 1500 rpm (its normally in the 650-750 range); the shut-off plunger would not, in fact, shut-off the engine; and, the throttle lever could be moved an inch or more from the idle position before the rpm picked up at all. So. Boatyard mechanic says Perkins shop screwed up; and, Perkins shop says Boatyard mechanic must have gotten debris into the fuel lines hence to the govenor and so screwed up the rebuilt pump. The shop says "bring it back and we'll retest it" and there is, of course, no doubt how that will turn out, eh?, as there is no "third party" capable of testing the device and rendering a judgement as to what's so. And of course, neither of these two parties has indicated any willingness to "adjust their charges" for the work...

Pehaps I should have simply done the job myself and taken my chances...
Why don't you send it to a third party for testing. How much could that cost compared to pointing fingers. I think it would be worth it.
You just reminded me of why I do most of my own mechanical work even though I don't particularly like it.
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Old 16-12-2011, 12:44   #53
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Re: DIY Injection Pump Rebuild

How hard is it to get dirt in a pump with dirty hands.

I think I would trust Perkins before a boatyard mechanic. But yes, to find out who's at fault. A third party would have to check it out. Working with pumps and injectors has to be a very clean environment in the handling of the parts.
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Old 16-12-2011, 12:51   #54
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Re: DIY Injection Pump Rebuild

I am facing an injector pump rebuild due to a faulty governer ( the best diagnosis I can get for a recent engine runaway on a Perkins 4107 w 48 hrs.) and have decided to buy the rebuild kit and spend $15.00 to sign up for a diesel class at the local trade college where the certified instructor agreed to let me focus entirely on injector pump rebuilds. He will supervise my rebuild of my pump and then keep me supplied with fouled injector pumps from different engines to go through in the course of the semester. Fuel injector pumps used to be a specialized part of the diesel course but was dropped and he is happy to revive it. I have not researched where to buy rebuild kits yet but have been told that E-bay is a potential source and that there is one company back east that will provide kits. The local Perkins dealer used to sell just the kits but recently changed management. The new guy refuses to sell them but is hapy to rebuild the pump for me for almost $800!! There is a local shop that will do it for $650 and I just figured whay not spend that money on kits learning a new skill if I have to.
There is also a local mechanic on the docks here who knows how to rebuild them and he offered to supervise my rebuild for about half his usual hourly of $70.00.
I do wish sometimes that I could be more a checkbook sailor but I figure with parts availability in far-away places wouldn't help much anyway.
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Old 16-12-2011, 12:55   #55
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Re: DIY Injection Pump Rebuild

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Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
How hard is it to get dirt in a pump with dirty hands.

I think I would trust Perkins before a boatyard mechanic. But yes, to find out who's at fault. A third party would have to check it out. Working with pumps and injectors has to be a very clean environment in the handling of the parts.
The boatyard mechanic is Perkins trained and certified with 20+ years of experience. I have known him for 10+ years and the owners of the Boatyard for 19 years. There is, unfortunately, no one within a reasonable distance that will/can do the testing...
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Old 16-12-2011, 13:17   #56
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Re: DIY Injection Pump Rebuild

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The boatyard mechanic is Perkins trained and certified with 20+ years of experience.
I would say there is a meeting in order, at the work bench, with all parties involved. And let them point fingers at each other. You should not have to pay for someone else's mistakes.
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Old 16-12-2011, 13:57   #57
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Re: Even the Pro's Don't Always Get it Right!

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Well. It seems that relying on the professionals has gained me little/nothing. Wednesday I was called by the Perkins shop to say that our pump was ready. I picked it up--along with a box of additional parts, seals, gaskets, crush-washers et al, $949.00 US worth all up--and delivered all into the hands of the diesel mechanic at our boatyard.
For $949 did you at least get the detailed list of tasks they completed what they replaced and/or governor settings they did? Or did they just call it re-build?
If you decide to open it up let me know. If you want to take a picture of all additional parts crushed washers, etc, laid out nicely on a piece of white paper, I could probably tell you what they replaced in this "professional", "can't be done yourself" re-build that costs so much.
Also if they bench tested it or calibrated the pump, you should ask for test results. That way you can have another shop check their potential screwup.
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Old 16-12-2011, 14:55   #58
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Re: Even the Pro's Don't Always Get it Right!

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For $949 did you at least get the detailed list of tasks they completed what they replaced and/or governor settings they did? Or did they just call it re-build?
If you decide to open it up let me know. If you want to take a picture of all additional parts crushed washers, etc, laid out nicely on a piece of white paper, I could probably tell you what they replaced in this "professional", "can't be done yourself" re-build that costs so much.
Also if they bench tested it or calibrated the pump, you should ask for test results. That way you can have another shop check their potential screwup.
That price included the rebuild--$689 USD--plus the cost of a replacement oil filter, secondary fuel filter, replacement lift pump, which I was adviced I should have replaced, replacement high pressure lines from the IP to the various injectors, together with replacement gaskets, crush-washers, "olives" et al. Since my earlier post I have learned that the Stop Valve shaft was replaced (the old shaft was in the sealed box that contained the rebuilt pump when I picked up). According to the Perkins mechanic, it is not impossible to install that shaft 180º out which he indicates could cause the described difficulty. It will be interesting to see what Southeast Power has to say of this hypothises.

Unfortunately, the boatyard and the Perkins repair shop are about 60 miles apart and there doesn't seem to be much interest on either parties' part in meeting to "discuss" the matter.

Unfortunately, while I am a rather good structural/dynamics engineer--or was until I got "retired"--I am a lousey mechanic/electrician. I can get by following detailed instructions, but only just. I firmly believe in hiring the right expert men/women for a job and letting them do their work without interference. Usually it works.

N'any case, thanks all for the support. We shall see. I will report progress if and when (Christmas cruise planning temporarily on hold!)
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Old 16-12-2011, 16:23   #59
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Re: DIY Injection Pump Rebuild

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Originally Posted by Butler View Post
I am facing an injector pump rebuild due to a faulty governer ( the best diagnosis I can get for a recent engine runaway on a Perkins 4107 w 48 hrs.) and have decided to buy the rebuild kit and spend $15.00 to sign up for a diesel class at the local trade college where the certified instructor agreed to let me focus entirely on injector pump rebuilds. He will supervise my rebuild of my pump and then keep me supplied with fouled injector pumps from different engines to go through in the course of the semester. Fuel injector pumps used to be a specialized part of the diesel course but was dropped and he is happy to revive it. I have not researched where to buy rebuild kits yet but have been told that E-bay is a potential source and that there is one company back east that will provide kits. The local Perkins dealer used to sell just the kits but recently changed management. The new guy refuses to sell them but is hapy to rebuild the pump for me for almost $800!! There is a local shop that will do it for $650 and I just figured whay not spend that money on kits learning a new skill if I have to.
There is also a local mechanic on the docks here who knows how to rebuild them and he offered to supervise my rebuild for about half his usual hourly of $70.00.
I do wish sometimes that I could be more a checkbook sailor but I figure with parts availability in far-away places wouldn't help much anyway.
Recently purchased the entire seal kit from Delphi for $27.00, if you need the part number let me know, when you do the pump be sure to replace the o rings in the govenor as well.
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Old 16-12-2011, 19:00   #60
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Re: DIY Injection Pump Rebuild

$689 is a bit better , but still for changing $27.00 worth of o-rings and seals, and inspecting worn parts, that is still pretty steep.
There is a pretty good description on what is a rebuild on this tractor forum.
B414 inj pump data plate info - MyTractorForum.com - The Friendliest Tractor Forum and Best Place for Tractor Information
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