Chinese Diesel Engines

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

What nonsense , a Diesel engine is a simple 1880s piece of machinery. Modern solid state device construction requires infinitely higher tolerance and specialised manufacture. A plant in 1880 could build a Diesel engine with a set of plans , you reckons he could build a solid state invertor !!!!!

Dave

[derail] Not a great comparison.

A good, long-running diesel relies on design (1880s or newer), quality of materials, fussy processing (hardening etc) and high precision machining.

Electronics design can be just cribbing from reference designs, or reverse-engineering a competitor. Assembly is simply ordering parts and sub-assemblies from one of a thousand different jobbers. The tolerances for surface-mount placement are still an order of magnitude looser than the machining tolerances of an engine. And someone's grandma can do final assembly, hand-soldering and QA.

So, myself I would agree that it's easier to churn out inverters than diesels.

[/derail]

(this thread's kinda gone to pot, and we've learned nothing new)

[manitu]

Just as one earlier poster, I do need a cheap engine.. my options are used volvo md7 or a chinese engine, 10-20hp.

I do agree that many chinese engines are most likely junk, im just searching for the ones wich are not.

The tdme/m-power ones has been sold in europe for a year or two, and being built on what looks like a kubota block, I hope I can use kubota parts on it. I do understand that two years down the line I could end up with more or less a kubota engine, and the total cost of one.

I will not buy one before I know if kubota parts will fit, and I will buy from a European retailer.

The chinese factories producing for Cummings and other western brands does not seem to make that small engines.

The race issue... Pointing out that China makes lots of junk is ok, claiming that they are unable to make quality because of race,mindset,etc is not.
Even if they can't, the reasons are elsewhere to be found.

.manitu

[Blue Crab]

Agmine consectamur

[JEGER] Agmine Consectamur !

This is the counter-strike division in clanjeger.

This clan play almost all matches from an excellent internet café named Spacebar.

speed, aggression, and violent action!


Your signature, that you hunt in packs, seems out of line with your genocidal lecturing to us. Does it have something to do with cruising and sailing? It can't be the speed, but I get a sense of aggression and violent action. Just curious.

[tsl]

Originally Posted by Teknav

Bob and Connie, well said! There are also the issues with work ethics and pride in one's workmanship; they are lacking or don't exist in the Chinese mind set. These are more frightening than poor manufacturing standards. Mauritz

Spoken like a typical Texan.

[manitu]

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

Agmine consectamur

[JEGER] Agmine Consectamur !

This is the counter-strike division in clanjeger.

This clan play almost all matches from an excellent internet café named Spacebar.

speed, aggression, and violent action!

Your signature, that you hunt in packs, seems out of line with your genocidal lecturing to us. Does it have something to do with cruising and sailing? It can't be the speed, but I get a sense of aggression and violent action. Just curious.

No, I'm no gamer, hehe. Agmine consectamur is the motto of the Norwegian army arctic ranger(jeger) company. And following the Norwegian engagement in Libya, + the fact that I'm a civilian now, maybe I should change it...

Edit: I should add that I joined the rangers, or green beret's to you yanks', because of love of the outdoors, and wanting to defend the values I believed my goverment stood for, not because I love killing or whatnot.

.manitu

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by manitu

No, I'm no gamer, hehe. Agmine consectamur is the motto of the Norwegian army arctic ranger(jeger) division. And following the Norwegian engagement in Libya, + the fact that I'm a civilian now, maybe I should change it...

.manitu

I think I would. It's not friendly at best and ominous at worst. There are lots of us old tough guys, accent on old, on here. Hell, we have an admiral, a sub commander, no end to the alphabet soups: CIA/FBI/DEA/, most of the frogman are dead but plenty of snakeaters still squiggling. My own father was the keeper of the Eddystone Light.

[manitu]

European retailers:
Sweden: http://www.rrun.se/empty_6.html

Norway: http://www.telemark-trade.no/Vaare-modeller

UK: www.marine-power-solutions.com/

I think my best bet would be the swedish or Norwegian dealers. The Swedish one is allmost as cheap as the UK one, and has allmost as good buyers protection as in Norway.

.manitu

[manitu]

@crab: Eddystone light?? Isn't that uhh... Does that make you uhh... Is your mother a mermaid by any chance?

.manitu

[jak3b]

Weary Americans Land Ship On Bright, Promising Shores Of China | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

[Snore]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

No sir, it is not about QC from the west or east.

When people only want it cheap, you get low quality. The whole idea that new stuff is both cheap and good is... well just wrong.

Most Chinese engineers and managers are fully educated in the west. They can do that job just as well as the western engineers and managers. They also understand quality control: cr@p coming off a production line is all the same level of cr@p.

They make what the market wants them to make. The market wants cheap cr@p, they oblige and take the money. My brother was TV director: he made cr@ppy TV programs for stupid people. He did that because most people are stupid and they got better ratings when they tuned the content for that level. They made a study and art of creating cr@p for the masses It was actually invented in the US with a series called Soap. See, the US also creates cr@ppy products when the demand is there. This is from wiki.answers.com:

The problem now is that even cr@p costs much to produce in the US. That is why we lose and they win.

Some people still want quality stuff, so they make that too. They are not bothered by self importance so much as we are and do not care if it is sold under a western brand name if that means they earn more money that way.

I apologize to the OP, but I will continue the thread drift.

There needs to be some real world experiences in here. I buy iron products in the utility industry. Policy mandates that we are to buy the lowest price product that meets standards. So we ignore that Chinese products are cheaper because they rape the environment- i.e. epic air pollution, that are alleged to have a lower safety standard than the U.S or any first world country, that there are no worker rights and pay is abysmal. We cast that aside and look at quality.

Simply picking up an imported iron product compared to a domestic you can feel the weight difference. Yet the import line has a certificate from the off shore foundry attesting that it has the same metallurgy as the competitors domestic product. The import also claims to have the same protective coating as the domestic. Yet when you examine the import product, the color of the coating is darker. On closer examination it is the iron showing through the coating.

If there are severe QC checks good products can come out of these countries. The electronics industry is proof of that.

As far as price- as long as third world countries and China pollute the environment and treat workers as consumables, the First World worker will never be competitive.

Bill


PS
All that said I am typing on an iPad!

As soon as someone in the US makes an iPad like device I will change to it. Not because of quality or any other factor, but because despite being a Republican and having had numerous union grievances filed against me, I believe in workers rights.

[Dustymc]

Originally Posted by Snore

As soon as someone in the US makes an iPad like device I will change to it.

Get out your credit card.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/28/te...agewanted=all&

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by Snore

I apologize to the OP, but I will continue the thread drift.

There needs to be some real world experiences in here. I buy iron products in the utility industry. Policy mandates that we are to buy the lowest price product that meets standards. So we ignore that Chinese products are cheaper because they rape the environment- i.e. epic air pollution, that are alleged to have a lower safety standard than the U.S or any first world country, that there are no worker rights and pay is abysmal. We cast that aside and look at quality.

Simply picking up an imported iron product compared to a domestic you can feel the weight difference. Yet the import line has a certificate from the off shore foundry attesting that it has the same metallurgy as the competitors domestic product. The import also claims to have the same protective coating as the domestic. Yet when you examine the import product, the color of the coating is darker. On closer examination it is the iron showing through the coating.

If there are severe QC checks good products can come out of these countries. The electronics industry is proof of that.

As far as price- as long as third world countries and China pollute the environment and treat workers as consumables, the First World worker will never be competitive.

Bill


PS
All that said I am typing on an iPad!

As soon as someone in the US makes an iPad like device I will change to it. Not because of quality or any other factor, but because despite being a Republican and having had numerous union grievances filed against me, I believe in workers rights.

Well said. Notwithstanding the opinions of those with apparently no experience in outsourcing to China, if you don't control the QC process with on site representation, preferably someone from your own company (although there are good third party representatives available), then you will tend to get rubbish. Since TDME appears to be a purely home grown manufacturer who is not making something for a company with a brand to protect and expertise to protect it with, my guess is that a purchaser might well regret their decision. But I'm glad there are those out there willing to throw caution to the winds, cross their fingers and hope for the best. They probably won't write back describing what dupes they were if things turn out badly, but maybe.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Teknav Bob and Connie, well said! There are also the issues with work ethics and pride in one's workmanship; they are lacking or don't exist in the Chinese mind set. These are more frightening than poor manufacturing standards. Mauritz

Therein lies the seeds of why the US will succumb economically to china. , hubris

( remember I said in the eighties , Detroit used to say Japs can't make quality cars ) , well how'd that work out then !!!

Dave

[goboatingnow]

"As far as price- as long as third world countries and China pollute the environment and treat workers as consumables, the First World worker will never be competitive. "

As fas as Europe is concerned you could replace China with the US in your statement LOL

Dave

[manitu]

Originally Posted by Snore

So we ignore that Chinese products are cheaper because they rape the environment- i.e. epic air pollution, that are alleged to have a lower safety standard than the U.S or any first world country, that there are no worker rights and pay is abysmal. We cast that aside and look at quality.

As far as price- as long as third world countries and China pollute the environment and treat workers as consumables, the First World worker will never be competitive.

Thanks for valuable input. This is the best argument against chinese engines (and products at all) till now, and no strawmen or biggotry in sight! applause! I do feel bad just for considering a chinese engine
, and if I could pay for a new Nanni , I would.

I'm not considering buying from china , but from a norwegian or swedish reseller. I feel safest on the swedes , because it's a bigger firm , not like the norwegian , wich might as well disappear after a coupple of bad sales.
You know , here we got 5 years reclamation rights on ANY product meant to last much longer than two years.. even cellphones and laptops (albeit not the batteries)

And the price isn't 20% less , it's 45% less!

edit: one more thing.. IF I buy one , I will post every experience , good and bad. I believe that being proven wrong is a thing to be proud of , not ashamed of. It means the world is moving forward.

.manitu