What length Catamaran

[chubby]

Originally Posted by Kinkircating

Only issue with your plan is that it doesn't work out that way in reality. The Lagoon 42 that I could by in 2016 for $410k now sells for $410k well used. Zero depreciation. This is more of a function that a new one will cost you $630k because of inflation and the natural evolution of features & product design.

Yes there are examples in the last 20 years where occasionally the markets got wonky and cash could score you an amazing deal, but there equal number of times where the chart flipped and boats appreciated in value.

It is just money and you cannot take it with you, buy the boat you want & can afford. Do not wait around a year or two to try and save $100k, your time is worth more than that and you could easily end up betting wrong.

concerning "zero depreciation"....
i do not believe that you are correct, sir.

there has been about 25% inflation...since 2016...
the value of $$ in 2016 is not the same as the value of $$ right now.

meaning that 2016 lagoon 42....did depreciate. (sorry)









i do agree that we've been in a wonky market.. and i agree with a "go sailing now" mentality.

however, catamaran markets are still governed by supply and demand..fear and greed just every other market that has ever existed since beginning of time..



just like the fools that perpetually "justify" voluntarily separating themselves from their own hard earned cash..

and hogs will get slaughtered due to their own greed.
...it is what is...


imo, the wholesale (used) car market (should) be a future indicator for buyer/sellers in boats (at least in usa)...

key variables being much tighter credit.. affecting home sales and equities in the united states.



and this is all happening right now...
so we can all watch it live and in living color.

:-)

[Kinkircating]

Originally Posted by chubby

concerning "zero depreciation"....
i do not believe that you are correct, sir.

there has been about 25% inflation...since 2016...
the value of $$ in 2016 is not the same as the value of $$ right now.

meaning that 2016 lagoon 42....did depreciate. (sorry)






i do agree that we've been in a wonky market.. and i agree with a "go sailing now" mentality.

however, catamaran markets are still governed by supply and demand..fear and greed just every other market that has ever existed since beginning of time..



just like the fools that perpetually "justify" voluntarily separating themselves from their own hard earned cash..

and hogs will get slaughtered due to their own greed.
...it is what is...


imo, the wholesale (used) car market (should) be a future indicator for buyer/sellers in boats (at least in usa)...

key variables being much tighter credit.. affecting home sales and equities in the united states.



and this is all happening right now...
so we can all watch it live and in living color.

:-)

Yes I totally agree and you seem to get it...except what you are missing, it most people are not that financially astute. They believe that the $410k catamaran depreciates 7% each year so they should be able to buy it 6 years later for $265k. But $265k does not buy what it did in 2016. I see and talk to boat buyers all the time who think this way. They say I want to buy a $1M dollar boat but won't be able to afford it for 6 years when it only costs $600k, and they have saved up the $600k...well they never realize their dream boat because they don't understand how money and inflation actually works.

The other thing you may not be considering is that at the high end of market, most people are not financing and the purchase of a $1M-$2M catamaran and it does not represent as big of financial commitment to them as a percentage of Net Worth as it does for the couple who needs to get financing to afford a $600k boat. There are way fewer higher end boats and way fewer buyer who are not really impacted by interest rates or tighter credit at all. This I can tell you as fact.

[chubby]

Originally Posted by Kinkircating

Yes I totally agree and you seem to get it...except what you are missing, it most people are not that financially astute. They believe that the $410k catamaran depreciates 7% each year so they should be able to buy it 6 years later for $265k. But $265k does not buy what it did in 2016. I see and talk to boat buyers all the time who think this way. They say I want to buy a $1M dollar boat but won't be able to afford it for 6 years when it only costs $600k, and they have saved up the $600k...well they never realize their dream boat because they don't understand how money and inflation actually works.

The other thing you may not be considering is that at the high end of market, most people are not financing and the purchase of a $1M-$2M catamaran and it does not represent as big of financial commitment to them as a percentage of Net Worth as it does for the couple who needs to get financing to afford a $600k boat. There are way fewer higher end boats and way fewer buyer who are not really impacted by interest rates or tighter credit at all. This I can tell you as fact.

i get ya.. and i (think) i understand your point.. :-)
(and i can't really disagree with anything)






i'm just thinking "opportunity"(for buyers of 40+ used cats) should starting right now..
for each lagoon 51 or 55 or 67 that gets delivered.. another excellent condition crewed lagoon yacht goes on the market.

will there be enough buyers to absorb that?
just from supply side interruptions getting back up to speed...there (should) be more inventory.. then add in the sellers that will see prices decreasing...
has there even been panic selling in the yacht industry?








/i'm no insider or expert...is just interesting to me

[Kinkircating]

Originally Posted by chubby

i get ya.. and i (think) i understand your point.. :-)
(and i can't really disagree with anything)






i'm just thinking "opportunity"(for buyers of 40+ used cats) should starting right now..
for each lagoon 51 or 55 or 67 that gets delivered.. another excellent condition crewed lagoon yacht goes on the market.

will there be enough buyers to absorb that?
just from supply side interruptions getting back up to speed...there (should) be more inventory.. then add in the sellers that will see prices decreasing...
has there even been panic selling in the yacht industry?








/i'm no insider or expert...is just interesting to me

Well, yes if you are in the market for catamarans that are of charter quality, there is always going to be opportunities to get "a deal". But is it really a deal? They are not scarce, they spit these things cheaply and fast, slap a little more glue and get it out the door. For this level manufactured in big numbers the market has already softened but it is still historically pretty damn strong. Plus, one ill-timed hurricane and boom we are back in 2018/2019 situation post Irma and Maria where even charter quality boats are in short demand.

I don't see the higher end stuff cratering in price that has 3 year lead times for new builds. I'm probably wrong, but I do believe COVID did fundamentally change things for a while where people are not going to put off living their lives as they've seen how fast that all can be taken away. So don't expect your HH's, Balance's, Marsaudon's, Privilege's, or Gunboat's of the boat world to have a major sale anytime soon...if ever, there just are not that many of them and will always be in demand.

[quartersplash]

My first multihull cat was a 47' with 28' beam. Too much for one person....
2nd cat was a well built 35' and was like a breath of fresh air! No stress...

[CraigJ]

As others have said it's about setup. i solo my 46ft performance cat easily, but i had to make some rigging changes after i took ownership to make that a reality. Recently moved it from one harbor to another over 3 days and had variable winds from 5kts to 25+ , easily handled sails mean you don't mind reefing and in my opinion, solo on a powerful yacht, early reefing is important - i reef to keep boatspeed under 10-15kts (depending on point of sail), slower in bigger/choppier seas, which usually means we start reefing at 15kts. better to try and alter things while you've still got time to fix anything that goes wrong than to try and do it under pressure.

the interior space and headroom in a larger boat also can't be understated, especially if you have guests and especially in extended bad weather, so if you have a choice i'd look at getting bigger and setting it up correctly

I'm currently under construction on a 48-49ft, it will be setup to solo also.

[gsuescum]

Originally Posted by S.S.Minnow

I see Sun Reef is now producing a 50' and I like the overall fit and finish of the rig. None on the used market yet.

The Sunreefs are pretty but only get one if you want to motor-sail all the time.