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Old 15-01-2015, 14:19   #91
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
It seems they are also pretty stable here while doing 38K...even if a bit wet



Anyway anybody going to go over 30k on cruising boats. Over 20K is already quite extreme and except on huge boats, normally just some surfs. Between 12 and 20K it is already very good.
Comparing Banque Popular - a little tri and Ragamuffin a brand mew maxi racer mono to A Leopard condomaran in the southern ocean doing fine.

What planet are you on.

They should be flatered I suppose.

The point is most 40ft catamarans are remarcably seaworthy.
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Old 15-01-2015, 14:20   #92
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
He is just a passionate guy who spends too much time looking at vids and discussing sailing, well sometimes he is a bit of a bone head like the rest of us, LOL.

You're right. Maybe instead of discussing sailing, he needs to get out and do some. I am.
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Old 15-01-2015, 14:24   #93
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

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You are talking about two different things: That Leopard on huge waves and high winds going at 8K and a guy that said that was surfing on a cat reaching the max speed of 25K and that was not obviously on the same conditions. I asked in what conditions we had done that and with what cat that but he did not reply yet.

Even 33ft monohulls performance cruisers can in some conditions surf at that kind of speeds downwind:

In that video the conditions are nothing like downwind in the southern ocean.

No comparison. Take that 33ft vessel from SA to Sydney. No thanks.

I don't imagine your wife would have been happy aboard on that cruise.
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Old 15-01-2015, 14:42   #94
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

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Originally Posted by downunder View Post
In that video the conditions are nothing like downwind in the southern ocean.

No comparison. ..
...
We where not talking about the video (where the boat was making 8K) but about this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeloya View Post
... the boat was making between 8,5-10,5 kts SOG depending on the wind anywhere from 20 to 35 true. Surfing down the waves I did always 15-18 kts and once I hit the mark 24,7 kts. ...
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Old 15-01-2015, 14:49   #95
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

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Originally Posted by downunder View Post
Comparing Banque Popular - a little tri and Ragamuffin a brand mew maxi racer mono to A Leopard condomaran in the southern ocean doing fine.

What planet are you on.

They should be flatered I suppose.

The point is most 40ft catamarans are remarcably seaworthy.
So it is me that don't know what I am talking about? The Banque Populaire a little trimaran? I am not the one that posted about Banque Populaire and the video with Ragamufin had to do with the video of Banque Populaire doing 41K.

I am impressed you don't know that Banque Populaire, the one doing 41K it is a MAXI trimaran. In fact the biggest modern racing multihull and also the fastest offshore. A little one you say?
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Old 15-01-2015, 15:04   #96
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
..
But yes, I'll admit - a 100 foot mono going to windward in 30 knots would very likely be more comfortable than a 25 foot cat. Happy now?
.....
..
Are you sure?

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
You enter almost every thread on multihulls, telling us how mono's are better, faster, cheaper etc etc etc etc. ..?
..
Cheaper certainly the rest you are imagining things not to saying that you are misleading others saying that I said things I never did. In fact I am not the one that has a fundamentalist opinion about this but you.

Just on this thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
... I love performance cats and trimarans. That does not make me blind regarding to advantages and disadvantages they have over monohulls. They have been discussed extensively elsewhere...Fact is that both types have advantages and disadvantages....

If i had the money the type of boat I would chose would be a fast trimaran, .

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Old 15-01-2015, 15:39   #97
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
So it is me that don't know what I am talking about? The Banque Populaire a little trimaran? I am not the one that posted about Banque Populaire and the video with Ragamufin had to do with the video of Banque Populaire doing 41K.

I am impressed you don't know that Banque Populaire, the one doing 41K it is a MAXI trimaran. In fact the biggest modern racing multihull and also the fastest offshore. A little one you say?
I certainly do that's exactly why I suggested that is irrelevant to compare them with a little catamaran. BP and Ragamuffin are valid comparisons with one another not with a Leopard 39.

The earlier 60ft version of Banque Populaire is now called Team Australia and based in Sydney, Australia and holds a number of speed records here.

I apolgise for suggesting you posted those videos. You post so many I lost track.
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Old 15-01-2015, 15:46   #98
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

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Originally Posted by downunder View Post
I certainly do that's exactly why I posted that is irrelevant to post it on a thread comparing it with a little catamaran. BP and Ragamuffin are valid comparisons with one another not with a Leopard 39.
...
Again, it was not me that posted about the Maxi trimaran Banque Populaire making 41K. I posted about Ragamuffin doing 38k to show that the difference in max speed between the fastest multihull and one that is fast but not the fastest of monohulls is not meaningfull. It was obvious that I was not comparing it with that cat making 8k but with the Maxi trimaran doing 41k.

Boats with big sponsors change name lots of time. That Banque Populair (the one on the video) is today the Spindrift and today's Banque Populair is a smaller maxi, the ex-Groupama. The Australia is an old ORMA class boat.
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Old 15-01-2015, 16:27   #99
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Are you sure?



Cheaper certainly the rest you are imagining things not to saying that you are misleading others saying that I said things I never did. In fact I am not the one that has a fundamentalist opinion about this but you.

Just on this thread:
Unfortunately, this also is not true Polux.. If you compare 50 ft monohull to 50 ft catamaran, yes definately it's more expensive..
However when most of us deciding on what size of boat should we buy we base our decision the space of the boat, marina fees, the performance of the boat, etc. (There is only one advantage of the mono over the cats here; load carrying ability is greater for long passages. In other words, the cat lose more of its performance compared to mono for every kg that you add..)

Typically, 39 ft of crusing catamarans offers 10 % more space than 49-50 ft cruising mono and they are almost at same price. Peformance wise they are very close to each other. (I've sailed both) Moreover, the useable space is more abundant on cat, if we take into account that the deck and the bow of the mono is not comfortable at all compared to the large net of the cat that everybody loves.. While you don't hit yr head anywhere on 39 ft cat, even on 50 ft mono the rear cabin beds are terrible..

As far as marina fees are concerned , yes for the same example the cat will be 10 % more expensive as in the Med the boats are charged by sqmeter. However, because of its rectangular shape of the cats you utilize all the area that you are charged for whereas as the mono is elliptical in shape, you are roughly using half of the space you are paying. Which one cheaper ??


I have 40.000 nm of sailing experience of which on third was on monos + I raced two years on Sunfast 36 as main sail trimmer. And yet I am very cautious when making any comment on monos..I kindly suggest you do the same if you are posting on catamaran's threads. Take a ride on a cat for a while and let us know how you (and yr admiral..) feel then.

Cheers

Yeloya
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Old 15-01-2015, 18:02   #100
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

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Originally Posted by yeloya View Post
Unfortunately, this also is not true Polux.. If you compare 50 ft monohull to 50 ft catamaran, yes definately it's more expensive..
However when most of us deciding on what size of boat should we buy we base our decision the space of the boat, marina fees, the performance of the boat, etc. (There is only one advantage of the mono over the cats here; load carrying ability is greater for long passages. In other words, the cat lose more of its performance compared to mono for every kg that you add..)

Typically, 39 ft of crusing catamarans offers 10 % more space than 49-50 ft cruising mono and they are almost at same price. Peformance wise they are very close to each other. (I've sailed both) Moreover, the useable space is more abundant on cat, if we take into account that the deck and the bow of the mono is not comfortable at all compared to the large net of the cat that everybody loves.. While you don't hit yr head anywhere on 39 ft cat, even on 50 ft mono the rear cabin beds are terrible..

As far as marina fees are concerned , yes for the same example the cat will be 10 % more expensive as in the Med the boats are charged by sqmeter. However, because of its rectangular shape of the cats you utilize all the area that you are charged for whereas as the mono is elliptical in shape, you are roughly using half of the space you are paying. Which one cheaper ??
...

Cheers

Yeloya
So many words to say what I have said previously

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Yes, I agree, it will be less comfortable then a much bigger cat that costs several times more but then with the price of the cat it is possible to buy a much bigger mono than the cat and then comfort in what regards seamotion will be on the side of the monohull. Fact is that both types have advantages and disadvantages.
As I have said and you agreed, for the same length a cat is much more expensive. I was not talking about speed but about comfort and water length size that is an important factor in what regards comfort, sailing upwind, as I clarified on a posterior post. So, if with the same money you can buy a much bigger monohull in what regards sailing upwind you have a more comfortable boat.

That's the only point I have made and one that seems to make everybody uncomfortable.

Regarding marinas we don't sail on the same med certainly: some charge more 50% for cats others charge more 100%, at least this is the reality I know.

Fair winds
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Old 15-01-2015, 18:44   #101
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
So many words to say what I have said previously



As I have said and you agreed, for the same length a cat is much more expensive. I was not talking about speed but about comfort and water length size that is an important factor in what regards comfort, sailing upwind, as I clarified on a posterior post. So, if with the same money you can buy a much bigger monohull in what regards sailing upwind you have a more comfortable boat.

That's the only point I have made and one that seems to make everybody uncomfortable.

Regarding marinas we don't sail on the same med certainly: some charge more 50% for cats others charge more 100%, at least this is the reality I know.

Fair winds
Although cats of the same length are not always more expensive. There are a lot of expensive quality monos around with no price advantage over cats.
With the volume production vessels yes.
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Old 15-01-2015, 18:49   #102
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

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Again, it was not me that posted about the Maxi trimaran Banque Populaire making 41K. I posted about Ragamuffin doing 38k to show that the difference in max speed between the fastest multihull and one that is fast but not the fastest of monohulls is not meaningfull. It was obvious that I was not comparing it with that cat making 8k but with the Maxi trimaran doing 41k.

Boats with big sponsors change name lots of time. That Banque Populair (the one on the video) is today the Spindrift and today's Banque Populair is a smaller maxi, the ex-Groupama. The Australia is an old ORMA class boat.
Again Polex I know that but perhaps that you did not know that the now Team Australia, the 60ft old ORMA class came out to Australia and was sailed for a while with the Banque Populair name and badges for a while.
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Old 16-01-2015, 06:32   #103
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

Sorry Polux, I misunderstood - all you are saying is that for the same price you can buy a monohull with a longer waterline than a cat and that as a result it will be more comfortable upwind? Not entirely sure how that relates to a video of a cat going downwind in heavy conditions, but.........

Anyway, I'll agree that for the same price you can buy a monohull with a longer waterline. While LWL helps, does that necessarily make it the more comfortable boat upwind? If the monohull has a fine entry, relatively modest beam and some significant rocker, I agree that it will likely be a very 'seakindly' boat upwind. If, on the other hand, it has virtually no rocker and very flat sections aft, it may pound like a demon.

If a cat has relatively fine entries, relatively narrow hull beam, is relatively light (especially in the ends), has good bridgedeck clearance and boards rather than keels, then it can be expected to be not only comfortable upwind, but to perform very well.

But I digress, getting back to the video, I am glad you are not saying that a typical production, mass-market, 50 foot monohull, loaded for cruising, is apt to be a more comfortable and stable sail downwind than a 39 foot cat in the conditions exhibited.

Brad
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Old 16-01-2015, 07:08   #104
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

I'm with barra on this. Looks like 40K max and 4-5m pretty long period waves with a slight cross swell. All pretty in control and so it should be. The drogue is probably doing SFA as it's just 100m warp with a loop in the end and skipping across the surface half the time. The wake and boat motion eludes to around 7k boat speed. Maybe they did have more wind earlier and were stoked to be through the worse of it. It's a new boat and if it's like ours the wind gear read about +20% from the factory so they may well have been seeing a lot more than actual wind strengths. I think in the comments they stated 35k surfs which adds less credibility to any information given....
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Old 16-01-2015, 07:40   #105
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Re: Waves always look small on video...

For a more complete report on the original thread, the Leopard 39 in the southern ocean, you can read:

Delivery Skipper's Report: Leopard 39 on the Southern Ocean | Leopard Catamarans US

fair winds, Peter Wiersema
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