Single Handling large cat 50'

[LeeV]

Originally Posted by EllisElectric

Is it possible to set up a 50' cat to single-handle? How would the lines be set up to prevent accidental gybe? How much movement would it require, such as going forward, moving from one side of boat to the other, etc? Also reefing, would you need to secure sail on boom by going topside? Any other considerations that need to be addressed would be helpful. Thanks

I’m curious; is this a “what if” scenario? What if I have to suddenly move it and can’t find anybody to help? We’re considering a cat in our future and that’s a fairly huge cat. Are you set on that size?

Regards,

[belizesailor]

A 50' cat is a lot of boat both in terms of accomodation space and the foot print of the boat when close quarters handling, not to mention purchase price and maintenance. I run them as a charter captian, but wouldnt want one personally.

Personally, I cant fathom why someone "needs" a boat that size for cruising use unless they have a large family or plan on lots of guests, but thats their perogative. The typical cruiser, and associated boats, have changed a lot in recent decades.

I think the sweet spot in terms of a good compromise of all the above, plus load carrying capacity and potential boat speed, is around 40'.

[Catmandu]

Belizesailor makes a good point, 50' cats are not created equal. There can be a big difference in size, manageability and maintenance among 50' cats. We all tend to use the one measurement of length to categorize boats and lump them together. I try to think in terms of a volume (freeboard, length, width)/wt./rig size when comparing. An Outremer 51 is MUCH smaller than a Lagoon 52.

As for single handing a 50' cat a lot depends on where and how you are going to use it. Assuming a sailor is island hopping and then making passages between island groups here are some things to consider. Note this list is tainted by where we sail ... crowded FL east coast, Bahamas, Carribean and items might differ based on your location and programme:

- backup autopilot or other self-steering system
- dual mainsheet
- roller furlers (including spinnaker)
- electric winches
- bulletproof reefing system (preferably from the helm)
- a rig size and setup that can be managed by one person manually w/o electric winches
- anchor windlass controls at the helm
- self tacking jib
- 4 corner visibility from the helm (some use cameras for this)
- Easy/quick access to the four corners from the helm
- Protection from the elements at the helm or the ability to helm from inside
- Good visibility from inside
- Winches sized to be able to lift and stow the dinghy by yourself w/o power in a pinch
- Good weather radar with protection zones and alarms
- Working AIS w alarms (nice for weekend cruise ship traffic into Ft. Lauderdale)
- Back up electronics (e.g. ipad, handhled, )
- EPIRB
- Decent first aid kit and the know-how to use it
- Mountian house freeze dried meals
- Lots of big fenders (inflatable?)

Now if "single handing" means you need to move the boat from a mooring or a dock to another dock the list gets much shorter ... double the fenders and have a cell phone to call out at 2-3 dock hands so they are there waiting to grab a line when you arrive.

[danielamartindm]

Sailing, no problem. Docking, possible, but expect a correspondingly high "pucker factor" at each port you visit.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Catmandu

Belizesailor makes a good point, 50' cats are not created equal. There can be a big difference in size, manageability and maintenance among 50' cats. We all tend to use the one measurement of length to categorize boats and lump them together. I try to think in terms of a volume (freeboard, length, width)/wt./rig size when comparing. An Outremer 51 is MUCH smaller than a Lagoon 52.

....

Yes, I was just looking at an Outremer a few days ago. Way different than a similarly sized Lagoon. Given its low slung build probably way easier to single hand around docks than the beefier Lagoon, thought I havent driven an Outremer yet.

[Catmandu]

Outremer make a great boat.

[Username25]

Get yourself Marsaudon Composites TS42 and ask shipyard to set up everything for single handing. These are incredible machines.

[CalmSeasQuest]

Great Thread - Tagging along!

We've got a FP Saba on order (ex-factory 9/2018) and are in the process of making all possible design and equipment decisions to simplify short/single handling. While I'll usually have two others aboard, due to disabilities they will be able to provide very limited assistance.

[akprb]

Easier? Harder?

I don’t think it matters which boat you choose.

You learn the vessel you’ve got.

Perhaps in the beginning one will be better behaved than another but quickly you develop the muscle memory to handle anything.

I love docking single screw anything. It was hard at first and provided much entertainment for onlookers as I was learning but once I got it, heaven.

I’ve never used a bow thruster. Not opposed to it, just have never had the opportunity. Stern thruster? Can’t imagine that luxury.

There is something about driving a shoebox. A feeling of accomplishment. A few months ago I was at a Hillsboro inlet waiting on the bridge.

Fellow next to me on a Sea Ray was just stationary and walking around with no one at the helm. Looking at his transom it was obvious something was controlling the clutches.

I toodled over and asked. He replied “Auto Something” kept her perfectly positioned as he sipped his cold Corona. Cool I replied, but as I maneuvered away I had to scratch my head, you know why ;-)

[Snore]

Originally Posted by akprb

Easier? Harder?



I don’t think it matters which boat you choose.



You learn the vessel you’ve got.



Perhaps in the beginning one will be better behaved than another but quickly you develop the muscle memory to handle anything.



I love docking single screw anything. It was hard at first and provided much entertainment for onlookers as I was learning but once I got it, heaven.



I’ve never used a bow thruster. Not opposed to it, just have never had the opportunity. Stern thruster? Can’t imagine that luxury.



There is something about driving a shoebox. A feeling of accomplishment. A few months ago I was at a Hillsboro inlet waiting on the bridge.



Fellow next to me on a Sea Ray was just stationary and walking around with no one at the helm. Looking at his transom it was obvious something was controlling the clutches.



I toodled over and asked. He replied “Auto Something” kept her perfectly positioned as he sipped his cold Corona. Cool I replied, but as I maneuvered away I had to scratch my head, you know why ;-)

I kinda agree, but find significant disagreement.

The FP series is a breeze to single hand either alongside or into a slip (bow or stern) IF you can get the starboard side alongside to something.

Likewise on dual helm Jenneau boats, it is easier to dock if you can get a line onto something that is in the same side as the engine controls. If you cannot you have to dodge the cockpit table as you scurry to the rail.

The common factor in both examples is the distance from the engine controls to the rail. Try docking a FP port-side to the dock. Ain’t easy keeping all the gel coat on the boat without someone calling clearance to the dock. Getting to the stern rail is an obstacle course- the bow is better, but leaves less room for error.

So while knowing your boat is important, the design of the vessel and the dock you are using is very relevant.

Regarding the Hillsboro Inlet; I sometimes miss waiting for the bridge. Especially when it was wind vs. tide— you get to learn pretty quick how to “hover” a boat, without all the fancy electronics the SeaRay had!

[Catmandu]

Akprb is right. Much of the "pucker factor" you feel single handing any boat has to do with how much time you have spent learning how she handles in wind, in current. With time and experience comes proficiency and confidence; however it's a lot less intimidating for the new captain to learn on a 30' cat than 50' cat. The size of the potential mess and the associated pucker factor single handing a large cat in crowded anchorages or at busy docks goes up exponentially with the size of the boat for the new captain and everyone else nearby.

I got the following good advice from akprb: "Find a 'safe place' to practice pirouetting in place, side crabbing, docking, holding position, anchoring and weighing anchor by yourself and spend at least 50-100 hours doing this. Life will be much happier managing the boat by yourself or with crew as crew can only fend off so much."

A safe place could be an vacant unused dock (e.g. swim platform) or stretch of water where you can anchor 3-4 fenders to represent a dock or the corners of a slip. Spend time anchoring and weighing anchor its not always as easy as they make look - anchors drag, anchors get fouled, you get blown over the chain ...

There is nothing quite like the first time pucker factor of getting pushed towards a closed draw bridge or a crowded dock by a 5 kt current and a 20 kts quartering tailwind in a large cat.

[Catmandu]

As Snore points out, not all boats are created equal and each has it eccentricities. The critical question he highlights is: "How far do you have to run and how many obstacles do you have to pass to get the job done?" This will vary greatly from boat to boat.

Our boat is easier to dock bow first as you can't see the sterns from the helm. Catanas are easier to dock backing in as you are right there ... and getting engine controls on BOTH sides of a catana is a valuable option for the single hander.

[akprb]

Originally Posted by Catmandu

Akprb is right. Much of the "pucker factor" you feel single handing any boat has to do with how much time you have spent learning how she handles in wind, in current. With time and experience comes proficiency and confidence; however it's a lot less intimidating for the new captain to learn on a 30' cat than 50' cat. The size of the potential mess and the associated pucker factor single handing a large cat in crowded anchorages or at busy docks goes up exponentially with the size of the boat for the new captain and everyone else nearby.

I got the following good advice from akprb: "Find a 'safe place' to practice pirouetting in place, side crabbing, docking, holding position, anchoring and weighing anchor by yourself and spend at least 50-100 hours doing this. Life will be much happier managing the boat by yourself or with crew as crew can only fend off so much."

A safe place could be an vacant unused dock (e.g. swim platform) or stretch of water where you can anchor 3-4 fenders to represent a dock or the corners of a slip. Spend time anchoring and weighing anchor its not always as easy as they make look - anchors drag, anchors get fouled, you get blown over the chain ...

There is nothing quite like the first time pucker factor of getting pushed towards a closed draw bridge or a crowded dock by a 5 kt current and a 20 kts quartering tailwind in a large cat.

WOW, someone reads my drivel :-)

Down in NZ I was bored and talked my way into a job as a relief skipper on an Auckland ferry. Why? 38 berthings a day with constant changing wind and current and with up to 400 eyeballs watching me screw it up.

Catmandu is right, practice. What really happens is the first few times everything is overdone, over time it just becomes muscle memory. Like driving a car, swinging a golf club or typing. Ya just do it.

Snore is also correct, some boats are just set up better than others but that being said, if you find one you like and it ain't quite perfect you'll figure it out. As far as starting on a 30 and going to a 50 I'd borrow the 30 and learn for a week then buy the 50. Just get it over with :-)

The other thing to do is get onboard with an experienced person and operate under their supervision. This is how they trained me and John Menzies could step in when I was about to take out a wharf. The important thing is time. Recently another friend bought a 55' custom cat which sat pretty much at the dock for the first year. He invited me over and we took off for the Bahamas that afternoon unplanned. Went to West End and back just for the overnight. After that he was back and forth a bunch of times solo, he just needed to get over the hump. Read "Your Turn" and "Courage" on the blog. It was great to see him enjoying his boat finally, not intimidated by it. He would send me reports regularly of his practice sessions. I encouraged him to leave the dock almost every time he went down to the boat. Just untie it, motor out, cruise around and return. After 5 or 6 of these sessions one just gets to know.

Thanks for listening. I'm stuck in Alaska now and MISS what you guys are all doing!!!!! Better get to work, have a great day all.

Here is one more for ya since I'm reminiscing: http://www.sailblogs.com/member/sailingohana/385212

[james247]

Originally Posted by EllisElectric

Is it possible to set up a 50' cat to single-handle? How would the lines be set up to prevent accidental gybe? How much movement would it require, such as going forward, moving from one side of boat to the other, etc? Also reefing, would you need to secure sail on boom by going topside? Any other considerations that need to be addressed would be helpful. Thanks

Everything. About single handed sailing is about setup. A preventer from your boom on either side through a block at the shrouds returning to a cockpit winch resolves the flying gyre issue. A good autopilot is your best friend in this regard.
Slab reefing can also be done from the cockpit when set up appropriately. In mast or boom reefing presents no issue from the cockpit.
Coming into a marina that is your regular berth is simple. Rig a single line to act as a fore and raft Spring. Leave is set up to pick up with a boat hook. Connect it amidships the step ashore with the stern line tie it off the go to midshipmen and take the bow line which is flaked over the safety rail tie it off. In Extreme conditions you might find it useful to leave one engine I gear I idle to stop the bow or stern from falling away. At a new marina you will need to contact the harbour master for berth detail ask for some help. They love to see you the first time at least to determine if your the type likely to pay.
Pre planning of everything is essential think it out and execute slowly..
I hand no issues with a spinnaker a sleeve allows it to be set and recovered. You are not racing and if it takes ten or twenty minutes after you change direction to set it so be it.
Cruising is not a race. It's about safety and comfort. It's meant to be fun.
Don't set unrealistic goals for arrival. Add a day. If you get there early get some extra sleep and food.