Saba 50 vs Antares

[Rubikoop]

Sure Gelliott. Sailing upwind in 18kts app at 50 degrees app in 2-4' seas 10-10.8 was easily maintained. Pointing up to 40 app speed dropped to right at 8. I cracked off to about 60 app briefly and saw mid 11s. Tacking upwind for about 15 miles we outpaced the 10 or so boats that were ahead of us, including monos. Sailing her fat and fast I was tacking thru about 120 degrees by compass, not counting leeway. I've sailed pretty much everything FP currently makes from the 36' Mahe Evo up to this Saba. I've got lots of time on Helias, Liparis and Orana. This Saba really sails well. Before the charter I went out for a 30 minute trip to familiarize myself with the main halyard system. In 10kts true on a beam reach I was able to do 7. Granted this is a brand new boat, with crispy sails, a smooth bottom, folding props and very light with no bodies or supplies onboard. Other than with the exception of the 36' Mahes I was very impressed with it's sailing performance. This boat was far quicker than a heavily laden 60' Eleuthera I was on in the Pacific.

This is the first Saba available for charter.


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[Heath68]

I didn't know a longer hull length helped speed and must admit at the moment to having a slight preference for the Antares. I'm not sure what people mean by better equipped as they all seem to have ice makers/bbqs/air con etc. Does anyone know what size makes 2 up sailing too difficult? This may help me rule out cats like the Ipanema 58??

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[Rubikoop]

Heath it depends on the people and what kind of sailing they are doing. Zanshin on this forum spends weeks/months every year on his Jeanneau 57' by himself and seems to do just fine. When problems happen maybe 4 people aren't enough to get a genoa pulled down in a squall with a broken furler...


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[gelliott]

thanks Rubikoop, great info, now all I have to do is try and sell something so I can get a saba instead of a helia...the house maybe?
I have previously been worried about FP Helia/Saba and whether they would stand up to use of circumnavigation , wasn't sure of the build quality any thoughts on that vs lagoon etc?

[Rubikoop]

Or you could buy one used Helia to get you half way around the planet and then pick up another one to get you the rest of the way and still have $$$ leftover. 😄

I'm semi employed in the charter business and see the boats at the end of five years. The winds are pretty strong and 3-5' seas are normal. The boats are used 20+ weeks a year and I don't see them sinking or the masts falling off. I think there is/was a Lipari entered in the 2014 WARC so somebody is giving it a go. I think the boats will make it but there are far more knowledgable and experienced sailors on this forum than me. I have sailed on many different production cats but not nearly as much as FP. What I have is experience on the Saba with charter guests in pretty benign conditions.

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[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by Heath68

I'm not sure what people mean by better equipped as they all seem to have ice makers/bbqs/air con etc.

For starters the A44 has a generator, watermaker , 12" chatrplotter, radar as standard equipment.
Antares 44i Catamaran: Price and Equipment List
The Saba specs do not list these nor do they list aircon or bbq grill so I don't know if they are included but I doubt it.
http://www.catamarans-fountaine-pajo.../saba50-en.pdf
The French boats typically are pretty basic and you add all the goodies from a really long option list so the price will go dramatically upward.
And we are talking new boats here aren't we?

[Heath68]

Well I think I'd be tempted with a new one but I've heard bevause they are basically built by hand that ALL makes have a degree of fixing or finishing to do to bed them.in... so I'd be just as happy with a 2-5 year old thats gone through this process... which then makes me wonder about the "makers" change on the Antares.

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[yeloya]

Rubicoop,

I am really surprised to see that Saba is faster than Eleuthra. They have about the same sail area, Eleuthra is 2,5 tons heavier but 10,5 feet longer and has much slimmer hulls, much less windage with no fly bridge whatsoever....
Nevertheless, I am sure Saba will have much better success particularly in charter. FP could sell only some 20 Eleuthra during her life span of 7-8 years, mostly because of bad layout/space utilisation and terrible semi hard bimini..

Sandcrab,

I have the price list for Helia with all the accesories; apple to apple Helia comes at least 30-33 % cheaper than Antares. I understand Antares is selling direct whilst FP is selling though their distrubutors that can give easyly 10 % off from their commission..

Cheers

Yeloya

[Sand crab]

I hoped you would post here Yeloya. I would rather have the Helia than the Antares, too especially with the 3 year waiting list.
How does the Saba stack up with the A44 with comparable equipment?

Do you have any price lists that you can post in my other thread?
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ts-139374.html

And is that FP price there for 2014 or 2015?

[Rubikoop]

Originally Posted by yeloya

Rubicoop,

I am really surprised to see that Saba is faster than Eleuthra. They have about the same sail area, Eleuthra is 2,5 tons heavier but 10,5 feet longer and has much slimmer hulls, much less windage with no fly bridge whatsoever....
Nevertheless, I am sure Saba will have much better success particularly in charter. FP could sell only some 20 Eleuthra during her life span of 7-8 years, mostly because of bad layout/space utilisation and terrible semi hard bimini..



Cheers

Yeloya

As I attempted to point out, the Eleuthera was heavily loaded for a Pacific crossing/circumnavigation. It's not a new boat with new sails etc. If the Saba was carrying the tons of spare parts, supplies, fuel bladder, full water tanks, full fuel tanks and a heavy center cockpit that the 60' cat was, it would surely be much slower. All I can do is directly compare the two boats that I spent many days sailing on a few months apart.


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[yeloya]

Originally Posted by Rubikoop

As I attempted to point out, the Eleuthera was heavily loaded for a Pacific crossing/circumnavigation. It's not a new boat with new sails etc. If the Saba was carrying the tons of spare parts, supplies, fuel bladder, full water tanks, full fuel tanks and a heavy center cockpit that the 60' cat was, it would surely be much slower. All I can do is directly compare the two boats that I spent many days sailing on a few months apart.


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Thx Rubikoop,

That makes more sense..

Yeloya

[MIRELOS]

Yeloya, I have done better speed with my FP60 crossing the pond and even in lighter winds here in the NE.
Our crew is mostly me the captn. wife the admiral and our water dog a true sailor

[Heath68]

Gelliott I don't know whether you've looked inside the Lagoon but in my opinion the furniture was cheap mdf and no comparison to boats like the Antares. I'd also heard (although being a newbie I could easily be mistaken) that they don't sail well as they are designed to hold as many people as possible and sail prodiminantly in clear waters (ie chartering around exotic islands). Thats not to say they can't of course, just that different boats are better.

I also understand a previous post about various options included in the price of the Antares making it better equipped than competitors but surely these would be no where near the extra premium placed on the sale price to buy afterwards (20-30%)?

[Sand crab]

That's the funny thing about the A44 Heath. People want these boats and will wait years for a new one. And they will pay a premium. I'm not an Antares fan but when you look at the specs and the pics then you can see that they offer a lot of bang for the (big) bucks.
There are other cats that are really desirable also like the Manta 42 and the Maine Cat 41 and these seem to do well pricewise despite their age. Catanas are better than average also. And possibly Seawind.

Just like cars. Is the Mercedes worth more than a Ford. Worth more to you that is.

[cwjohm]

Only 3-4 Antares built every year so of course people will pay a premium.

If they built 50 boats a year like the larger manufacturers it would be a completely different story.

This has nothing to do with the boat and everything to do with a well thought out business strategy.