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Old 02-12-2011, 19:02   #31
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Re: Pretty Cat, Ugly Cat

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Here's one. I file this under what were they thinking.
The problem with a lot of 'Third World Charter Boats" is they quite often been modified from an approved vessel or simply "just built"...
Cat Man Do's comment is correct on the face of it with regard to Ventilation, Shade and Visibility.
However i see no structural rigidity supporting the upper deck laterally, just columns? Not a bulkhead in sight Athwartships or Fore and Aft???
Also if that vessel is capable of carrying say 40 + persons can you imagine if they all went "up on deck" to view a whale or whatever all at once?
Charter boat? Not a chance.......
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Old 02-12-2011, 19:24   #32
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Re: Pretty Cat, Ugly Cat

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Well it's for sale for $255,000.
2009 48' Flybridge Motorsailer-Catamaran Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I still think it's ugly. For that kind of money I'd get the Bahia or a dozen others.
I was thinkin about posting this steel tri but it's not really ugly except for the steel part and some yahoo made the rules that it had to be a cat. That guy's a jerk. BOB
That boat should not be listed in Boats for Sale, New and Used Boats and Yachts - YachtWorld.com , yes it's a Catamaran however someone with all the skills of an amateur carpenter has built a possibly dangerous PERGOLA on it. Check it out it's a shocker!!!!
Sadly visitors to places that allow this kind of crap to operate as Charter Boats have no idea that a lovely day out on the water can end in tragedy, there's no way that vessel would comply with AMSA, USL or USCG compliance. (and for good reason)
Honeymooners, tourists etc etc from all over the world become possible victims, now and then there are tragic headlines from such places covering capsizes, collisions, fires etc and this is why. NOT GOOD! ...only my observed opinion!
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Old 02-12-2011, 20:00   #33
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Re: Pretty Cat, Ugly Cat

UUUUUGGGGGGLLLLYYYYY
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Old 02-12-2011, 20:09   #34
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Re: Pretty Cat, Ugly Cat

PPPPPRRRRREEEEETTTTYYYYY Outremer 49
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Old 02-12-2011, 20:16   #35
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Re: Pretty Cat, Ugly Cat

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Schionning have gone for this bow design, i don't see the advantages? Aesthetically i don't go for it either.
The point of these bows (ha! that's a pun!) is that they come back OUT of the water easily.

Raked the other way, they would increase resistance as the bow starts to go under - like many boat designs, mono or cat.

However, these long, sharp, wave-piercing bows are going to potentially see a lot of time with water over them. So they are designed to let the bow come back up easily when the reserve buoyancy designed farther aft in the boat kicks in and starts to lift the bow.

Look at the AC45 boats to see this in action.

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Old 02-12-2011, 20:18   #36
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Re: Pretty Cat, Ugly Cat

As for the pictures of the ugly cats, I can't help notice that most of them are in locations many of you only dream and talk about.

If you were offered one for free in that location, would you still consider it ugly?

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Old 02-12-2011, 20:57   #37
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Re: Pretty Cat, Ugly Cat

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Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
Also if that vessel is capable of carrying say 40 + persons can you imagine if they all went "up on deck" to view a whale or whatever all at once?
Firstly there isn't the room for 40 + up top
2ndly, you would find that area is for crew only
Thirdly, if its in Asia, there are probably no critters worth watching left in the water to rush up and see.
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Old 02-12-2011, 21:04   #38
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Re: Pretty Cat, Ugly Cat

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Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
Sadly visitors to places that allow this kind of crap to operate as Charter Boats have no idea that a lovely day out on the water can end in tragedy, there's no way that vessel would comply with AMSA, USL or USCG compliance. (and for good reason)
They are not in waters controlled by AMSA, USL or USCG so need to comply.
If they did have to comply, who in these countries could even afford to buy the boat to run a charter in the first place and how would they then be able to do the cheap charter that attracts the people that use them?

The same can be said about many forms of transportation in asian pacific nations. Just because it doesn't fit into your or the "Western" bureaucrats pigeon hole doesn't mean it is not a valid form of transportation for those who cant afford a luxury charter vessel to carry their arse around.

And lets not get carried away here, remember that people have been travelling the globe for ages on various craft that would never get close to passing AMSA, USL or USCG

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Old 02-12-2011, 21:04   #39
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Re: Pretty Cat, Ugly Cat

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Firstly there isn't the room for 40 + up top
2ndly, you would find that area is for crew only
Thirdly, if its in Asia, there are probably no critters worth watching left in the water to rush up and see.
cat man do ... one of the most tragic events in boating happened in Australia where a motor boat that was licensed for 8 sank with 17 on board on New Years Eve in NSW,
1) when 40 people decide to go to that upper deck believe me they will.
2) Are you joking about 'Crew only'?
3) Ok scrub the whale and substitute an upside down semi-submersed tourist boat floats by.
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Old 02-12-2011, 21:06   #40
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Re: Pretty Cat, Ugly Cat

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They are not in waters controlled by AMSA, USL or USCG so need to comply.
If they did have to comply, who in these countries could even afford to buy the boat to run a charter in the first place and how would they then be able to do the cheap charter that attracts the people that use them?

The same can be said about many forms of transportation in asian pacific nations. Just because it doesn't fit into your or the "Western" bureaucrats pigeon hole doesn't mean it is not a valid form of transportation for those who cant afford a luxury charter vessel to carry their arse around.
You miss the point totally, Stability and Inherent strength are the guidelines, there is no requirment in any survey for luxury.
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Old 02-12-2011, 21:15   #41
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Re: Pretty Cat, Ugly Cat

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You miss the point totally, Stability and Inherent strength are the guidelines, there is no requirment in any survey for luxury.
Can you show me where you came to the conclusion that it has no stability or inherent strength for its intended purpose?
Can you also show me where it has to meet Australian or USG survey standards to perform its tasks in the intended area of operation.
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Old 02-12-2011, 21:19   #42
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Re: Pretty Cat, Ugly Cat

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Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
cat man do ... one of the most tragic events in boating happened in Australia where a motor boat that was licensed for 8 sank with 17 on board on New Years Eve in NSW,
Proof that having a boat built to Australian survey is not some miracle safety device if the operator and or passengers are fools
Quote:
1) when 40 people decide to go to that upper deck believe me they will.
Not if they have passageway blocked with a sign saying "Crew Only"
Quote:
2) Are you joking about 'Crew only'?
No, why do you ask?

Quote:
3) Ok scrub the whale and substitute an upside down semi-submersed tourist boat floats by.
OK, still cant see them rushing up there if the passageway up is blocked off
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Old 02-12-2011, 21:39   #43
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Re: Pretty Cat, Ugly Cat

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I was more thinking along the lines of the rake aft of the bow than the entry. Both designs can have a "base-ball" bat or fine entry. I think the rake back on battle ships was to lessen the risk of entanglement in lines strung across channels and for cracking frozen waterways etc.
The plumb bow on a Cat or Mono is annoying as speed increases the water rises up the stem to form spray, whilst a forward sloped entry tends to raise bouyancy as it immerses with no tendency of a rising body of water up the stem.
Herreshoff got it SO right.
An aft raked stem would be annoying docking in a pen as the very forward section would make contact a bit like a 'Bulbous Bow'.
Maybe thats the thinking it is a way of streamlining forward bouyancy without having a gas bottle shape forward??? INTERESTING!
Modern design is in a lot of ways simply history repeating itself sadly a lot of our Catamaran designs are based on French Curves from the designers drawer, Bahia's are an example the exterior looks great however the interior ironing board furniture shapes is an example of 'French Curve' overuse,,, only my opinion!
I've built many classic and modern designed cats and mono's in Fibreglass, Timber, Chined and Round-bilge Aluminium yet the boat we've chosen for our retirement is a Lagoon 44, not a pretty boat BUT very functional to our needs.
Form follows function.....SO TRUE.
That response shows so much maritime insight, I'll have to look at the Lagoon 44 little more closely now.
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Old 02-12-2011, 21:44   #44
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Re: Pretty Cat, Ugly Cat

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Can you show me where you came to the conclusion that it has no stability or inherent strength for its intended purpose?
Can you also show me where it has to meet Australian or USG survey standards to perform its tasks in the intended area of operation.
1) The vessel is advertised on a Western website for an inexorbitant amount of money beyond the reach of any locals.
2) You are correct a vessel built to a standard does not alone protect anyone from tragedy, especially if the crew are inept or not trained. However it's nice to try to eliminate some of those precursers to a tragic event.
3) Do you really believe a sign or barrier stops tourists? Look at the size of the above deck area!!!
4) I never said the vessel HAD to meet any survey, my point was that judging by the structure it doesn't. PNG adopted AMSA survey years ago i think you'll find Bali would have done the same or similar at least.
5) I did not say THAT vessel lacked stability i said it has no inherent strength in its structure.

Good to have an active debate but don't shoot the messenger. :-)
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Old 02-12-2011, 21:58   #45
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Re: Pretty Cat, Ugly Cat

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Proof that having a boat built to Australian survey is not some miracle safety device if the operator and or passengers are fools
Not if they have passageway blocked with a sign saying "Crew Only"
No, why do you ask?

OK, still cant see them rushing up there if the passageway up is blocked off
Bureau Veritas or BV are the classification society accepted largely in Indonesia, The rules they go by are international using parts of USCG and Lloyds, AMSA rules are based on a compilation of the other societies.
A charter vessel built to SURVEY is not necessarily a LUXURY vessel, for arguments sake an Aussie 'tinnie' can be built to survey, and other than the plate thickness and safety gear that must be carried on board the most critical aspect is the amount of positive bouyancy it has to carry.
Safety is never a luxury it's a right.
Take money from passengers and the operator had better do it right.. it's a no-brainer!
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