Performance vs Comfort 50-foot Cats - real difference

[smj]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Throw a big load at them (overload them)

Report back

We have a length to beam ratio of 14:1 and fully loaded for cruising still get into the teens easily.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Kinkircating

It’s a Balance 526MkII, .

The issue is as others have alluded to, it’s not an inexpensive catamaran. There are faster cats out there no doubt l but it’s a pretty decent blend of comfort and performance.

Nice boat for sure
Pricing around $2 million AUD
And why we went the way we did

All the comfort and load carrying ability you could ever need
The best windward machine ever
And $1.8 million to cover fuel costs.
Going on the last 7 years of usage good for about 170 years

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by smj

We have a length to beam ratio of 14:1 and fully loaded for cruising still get into the teens easily.

Yeah but there's load and then there's LOAD.
I've seen 40 ft cats with more crap on them than we carry on our 60fter and we don't worry about weight at all, more the better.

If keeping loads light and vessel on its DWL I agree, it's not a problem but it's a rare cruising cat or mono that hasn't had a raised waterline.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by Kinkircating

It’s a Balance 526MkII, that was loaded for the 1300 mile passage we were on, full water tanks & 3/4 full with fuel. Carrying a Highfield 360 with a 25HP 4stroke dinghy, and all the toys & crew of 5. Flying 120sqm code 0 & full main. TWA of 105. Max boat speed this trip was 22.9knots surfing a wave in 22knots of wind at 150 TWA, the boat likes to sit around 14 knots or so very comfortably not in anyway seeming out of control, more so she’s in her element.

The issue is as others have alluded to, it’s not an inexpensive catamaran. There are faster cats out there no doubt l but it’s a pretty decent blend of comfort and performance.

Just curious, we're you clicking off 300 mile days?

[catsketcher]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Yeah but there's load and then there's LOAD.
I've seen 40 ft cats with more crap on them than we carry on our 60fter and we don't worry about weight at all, more the better.

If keeping loads light and vessel on its DWL I agree, it's not a problem but it's a rare cruising cat or mono that hasn't had a raised waterline.

We are different. When I launched my cat she floated very high. A sistership had "better" interior furnishings and was much lower when unloaded. So my cat gets down to her lines when she is loaded. Every couple of years you take off anything that you haven't needed for a while and do other things like now I am installing a watermaker, so she will get lighter when cruising.

We are both happy with our choices - I go cruising to get by with a little less and to have fun, doing some great sailing at the same time. Cost of my cat - about $130 K secondhand, but she hasn't ever hit 20 knots. 19.9 is her top and that does bug me a bit. An Outremer or Balance is heaps, but a secondhand Schionning Wilderness 1320 or a Chamberlin 14m is probably the same speed and about $300-400 K second hand. So you can get great speed at a reasonable price.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by catsketcher

We are different. When I launched my cat she floated very high. A sistership had "better" interior furnishings and was much lower when unloaded. So my cat gets down to her lines when she is loaded. Every couple of years you take off anything that you haven't needed for a while and do other things like now I am installing a watermaker, so she will get lighter when cruising.

We are both happy with our choices - I go cruising to get by with a little less and to have fun, doing some great sailing at the same time. Cost of my cat - about $130 K secondhand, but she hasn't ever hit 20 knots. 19.9 is her top and that does bug me a bit. An Outremer or Balance is heaps, but a secondhand Schionning Wilderness 1320 or a Chamberlin 14m is probably the same speed and about $300-400 K second hand. So you can get great speed at a reasonable price.

We were the same when we had a cat - and a dirt residence - and cruised several months a year.
But when we wanted a full time live aboard cruiser, with no dirt house support, things were going to be different.

Even a balance 52 wouldn't work for us now unless we made some serious comfort and lifestyle sacrifices
But for those than can, sensational.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

We were the same when we had a cat - and a dirt residence - and cruised several months a year.

But when we wanted a full time live aboard cruiser, with no dirt house support, things were going to be different.

We all have our expectations, some need more to be happy and others are happier with less.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

We were the same when we had a cat - and a dirt residence - and cruised several months a year.
But when we wanted a full time live aboard cruiser, with no dirt house support, things were going to be different.

Even a balance 52 wouldn't work for us now unless we made some serious comfort and lifestyle sacrifices
But for those than can, sensational.

And it is quite a balancing act. I am going through that right now. It’s difficult to figure out what you need versus what you don’t need and what things you need to be comfortable. All while keeping the weight off. There sure are a lot of options

[catsketcher]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

We were the same when we had a cat - and a dirt residence - and cruised several months a year.
But when we wanted a full time live aboard cruiser, with no dirt house support, things were going to be different.

Even a balance 52 wouldn't work for us now unless we made some serious comfort and lifestyle sacrifices
But for those than can, sensational.

We lived as a family of four on the boat for three years, no house or car, just the boat. We obviously are happy with less than some. Transom didn't get more than 2cm wet at most.

Not trying to push my point, just trying to keep the more minimal flag flying, in case a lurker is thinking of going cruising in an affordable cat like we did. It can be done and be a fab lifestyle. Funny to think my 38 footer is smallish, she seems plenty big for me.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Chotu

And it is quite a balancing act. I am going through that right now. It’s difficult to figure out what you need versus what you don’t need and what things you need to be comfortable. All while keeping the weight off. There sure are a lot of options

For us it was only a few main things
Things you take for granted in a house

Big fridge and freezer full of cold beverages and meat - and a big pantry.
Buy in bulk and save when easy and spend months out at a time.

A standard king size bed we can walk around and don't have to clamber up in to

A normal sized galley with appliances and the power to run them
We both like to cook

A washing machine - no marinas, no laundromat needed.

And a comfortable place to lounge out of the sun, rain and cold.

It's not like any of that is special or a luxury

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

All of them very obviously trying to be a bigger boats judging by the gear stacked up on them
Poor things ending up being nothing more than expensive motorised barges.

Which gets me back to my thoughts that a successful live aboard cruising cat that can actually sail needs to around 60ft - if you want to have nice things, comfort and some toys.

That made me smile at the thought of a 50ft cat not being big enough

I guess I choose to sail in a different world We normally touch the bottom at 0.9m on the depth gauge (not calibrated) but had to drift in with 0.8m showing the other evening. The local yacht club on the quay offered us free showers and the use of their bar. The local harbour master gave us 3 nights for the price of 2 as we came in late and we're regular visitors. I gave the local fishing trawler a hand to tie up and he sold us a pair of very nice fresh Bass for a fraction of the retail price.

We are happy with our choice and sailing area with no plans to change. Life is good and yes we have a washing machine

Pete

[Steamer]

Originally Posted by eneas

Our choices in both options are top-tier cats with premium build qualities, !

When thinking of premium build quality I always look at building materials because my understanding is that top quality is only achievable with the best materials. The brand name is the last to think about in this case.

Things differ if one thinks of "quality of living aboard".

[Kinkircating]

Originally Posted by Joli

Just curious, we're you clicking off 300 mile days?

No definitely not 300-mile days. My friend on his new 526MkII has hit 306 but in a racing mode with crew pressing the boat around the clock, but realistically we would plan for 200-to-220-mile days of super easy comfy sailing with reefing down and night so there is zero drama. I'm not sure people quite understand what it takes to keep a 50' cat averaging 14+ knots for an extended period of time. That is freaking flying because that means for all those times you get slowed down to 10 knots surfing into the back of a wave, you are doing 22-24 knots for extended periods of time. It's exhausting on a shorthanded crew and doing that at night isn't worth it. When you are taking your boat across an ocean you want to not break stuff, so 12-14 comfortably during the day, then 8-10 after the sun sets is really the sweet spot I've surmised. But when conditions are just right it is fun as hell to sail at 18 knots in 20 knots of wind.

As anyone who has done lots of passages knows so much depends on sea state and point of sail (and of course the boat you happen to be on). You have to take everything with a grain of salt and look at averages over greater time periods and conditions to truly understand how a boat sails.

[slowNlow]

Originally Posted by Steamer

When thinking of premium build quality I always look at building materials because my understanding is that top quality is only achievable with the best materials. The brand name is the last to think about in this case.

Things differ if one thinks of "quality of living aboard".

Meh. I’ve seem total crap construction with carbon and epoxy. And some pretty nice work with polyester and Eglass.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by slowNlow

Meh. I’ve seem total crap construction with carbon and epoxy. And some pretty nice work with polyester and Eglass.

Yep, and as a boat builder by trade myself, some of the worst boatbuilding work I have seen has been done by so called professionals and some of the best has been done by amateurs