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Old 15-01-2012, 04:24   #46
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Re: Opening Cash Offer. Minus 30 Percent of Asking Price ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand crab View Post
Longer answer yes, if you pay. There is a SoldBoats portion of Yachtworld where brokers list the selling price. For $416 annually you can access that.
Boat and Yacht Sales, Buy Boats and Yachts - YachtWorld.com
But for that will be relying on Brokers (ROTFLMAO ) to:-

a) not be lazy (Lol! - if they can't often get the boat description right - and they potentially get paid for that - what chance they will bother with something they don't get for?).

b) not be massaging the figures (the market is surprisingly bouyant).

Can't say I would pay $1 for that. The boat market is simply too small and fragmented to generate reliable figures, not quite like pricing Fabergé Eggs but IMO pretty much the same as putting an antique in an Auction - some days it will fly, other days not - simply depends who and how many want it, and how bad - at that time......and a chamber pot with a hole in the bottom ain't never going to fetch the same as a mint condition Ming Vase......no matter what the Vendor may think (or have paid for the Chamber Pot).

But as always, each to there own.
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Old 15-01-2012, 16:28   #47
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Re: Opening Cash Offer. Minus 30 Percent of Asking Price ?

Boats are like caravans or mobile homes,

Line up 10 boats of the same year and model, You get 10 different boats. all with different prices,

Depends purely on the bells and whistles that have been added as options or extra's.

I paid extra for my Gemini compared to others of the same age, But I still came out ahead of the cheaper ones,

Bells and whistles on mine would account for a minimum $60,000-00 of extra's.

So the extra $10,000-00 I paid, got swamped by the extra's That were on it. and the quality of the boat and fittings as well.

A bare boat will cost you at least $50,000-00 extra in new parts, if you want to take it out of your very protected bay and put it in the real ocean,

Davits for the dinghy, $12,000-00
Full cockpit covers, $12,000-00
Dinghy and outboard, $10,000-00
Navigation electronics $30,000-00
Good water maker, $6,000-00

Plus fenders, Solar, batterys, chargers, wind generator, Ropes, anchors, chain, sails, electric windlass, PFD's, Harness's, Pumps, (Toilet, bilge, water pressure, shower, Sink,)

And spares, Hahahahahaha

There are no shops in the middle of the ocean. Even Macdonalds and KFC wont put a shop out there.

I know, I ran out of gas for the fridge and smokes for me, four days out before I reached OZ.
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Old 15-01-2012, 16:46   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B
Boats are like caravans or mobile homes,

Line up 10 boats of the same year and model, You get 10 different boats. all with different prices,

.
There are two hunter 28s for sale at my club. That never happens in Singapore. One is worth and asking 10k more. Everyone looks at both and tries to get the good one for the other price. Its been frustrating for the owner and the conversations are amusing.

- I want your boat for that price
- my boat is a better boat
- yes thats why I want it
- yes so it is worth more
- but that boat is 10k cheaper
- buy that boat
- your boat is better
- yes so it is worth more...
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Old 15-01-2012, 16:53   #49
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Re: Opening Cash Offer. Minus 30 Percent of Asking Price ?

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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
There are two hunter 28s for sale at my club. That never happens in Singapore. One is worth and asking 10k more. Everyone looks at both and tries to get the good one for the other price. Its been frustrating for the owner and the conversations are amusing.

- I want your boat for that price
- my boat is a better boat
- yes thats why I want it
- yes so it is worth more
- but that boat is 10k cheaper
- buy that boat
- your boat is better
- yes so it is worth more...
You got it, Hahahahahaha
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Old 15-01-2012, 17:45   #50
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Re: Opening Cash Offer. Minus 30 Percent of Asking Price ?

Davits for the dinghy, $12,000-00
Full cockpit covers, $12,000-00
Dinghy and outboard, $10,000-00
Navigation electronics $30,000-00
Good water maker, $6,000-00

You could get one hell of a dinghy for $10k for a Gemini !!! You would probably actually need $12k worth of davits to secure it!


Quote:
- I want your boat for that price
- my boat is a better boat
- yes thats why I want it
- yes so it is worth more
- but that boat is 10k cheaper
- buy that boat
- your boat is better
- yes so it is worth more...

That all goes out the window when the owner really needs to sell his boat.

Having the cheaper one there is probably a good thing. The dearer boat owner can lower his price to close to the price of the cheaper one. That means the cheaper boat owner will have to lower his price probably more. Once the dearer one is sold at a discounted price, it makes the cheaper one look expensive.

It's hard to know exactly what runs through people's mind with this sort of thing as value, worth and price all mean different things to different people....
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Old 15-01-2012, 18:39   #51
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Re: Opening Cash Offer. Minus 30 Percent of Asking Price ?

IMO extras are worth little of their original price. boat condition, design and in some cases engine make are the big plus or minuses. dingys, outboards, plotters, gps etc are all suspect used.
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Old 15-01-2012, 18:46   #52
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Re: Opening Cash Offer. Minus 30 Percent of Asking Price ?

I am interested in an opinion of this boat. 32′ Douglas – 1974 – $24,995 | Used Boats for Sale Ontario - Kingston Yacht Sales What do you think I should offer?
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Old 16-01-2012, 07:12   #53
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IMO extras are worth little of their original price. boat condition, design and in some cases engine make are the big plus or minuses. dingys, outboards, plotters, gps etc are all suspect used.
I agree with this. Especially things that are in the "luxury" category.

I view them as things that are about to fail that I will need to replace at full retail...

Fancy and complicated charging systems are at the top of that list.
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Old 16-01-2012, 07:31   #54
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I am interested in an opinion of this boat. 32&prime; Douglas &ndash; 1974 &ndash; $24,995 | Used Boats for Sale Ontario - Kingston Yacht Sales What do you think I should offer?
Interesting that she boasts wheel steering in the ad and in the first photo there is what appears to be a tiller sticking up. What else doesn't the seller/broker know what they are talking about.

Also the interior is a crap shoot. It seems that these tyoes of things are always be worse than advertised. The good news is it is an interior you can fit how you like the bad news is it could take 5 grand or more to do it.

If she is represented fairly in the ad, I would consider 19-20k considering the interior refit needed. This is not a slag at the boat. But here are things I would need to add to make this boat useful to me. Other boats may have this stuff already.

- Interior refit $5k
- spinnaker gear 2k
- autopilot $1k
- electric system upgrade - $2-3k

The electric system is not mentioned. I suspect it is 1974 vintage stuff with battery of unknown pedigree. Upgrade will include 3 new batteries, start +2 house and at least 40w of solar as a maintenance/topping system.

There are instruments in the cockpit, if they work, fine. If not I would be looking at speed/depth minimum for 500-1200 bucks

So after purche this boat (for my personal needs) would require 10-13k in upgrades. If I buy it for 20 and have 30-33 in then I have a sellable 33k boat. No matter how many upgrades I put in, this boat won't have enough kerb appeal to draw much more than 30k at sale.

Another upgrade needed if I were to cruise this boat is a dinghy and davits but that is a bit beyond this point in discussion.
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Old 23-08-2012, 12:21   #55
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Re: Opening Cash Offer . Minus 30 Percent of Asking Price ?

Ok guys ... I've read this thread now several times and I have still no clue how to start resp. how to do the negotiation.

My issue is, aren't the brokers aware that the potential buyers are low balling their initial offers and add 30% just to get the wanted selling price ?

Let's take this for an example : Boats in the Netherlands - holland-boote.de

In Netherlands you have thousands of these kind of boats to be sold. Since I know the supply is overwhelming, why not say folks - my offer is 50%.

The question is now, how can I reach the "fair" price (talking about a Bazar like negotiation). I would like to see something like :
me : 10k
broker : 17k
me : 11k
broker : 16k
etc
me : 13k -> broker : done deal

But as the postings here suggest, it's kind of a 1 or 2 bidding play.

Further how you make sure after the deal is done (offer and put down), that the owner is not "lowering" the value of the boot because he is not happy with the price ? Sry I sound like a paranoid guy but just wanna be prepared for the worst.
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Old 24-08-2012, 10:33   #56
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Re: Opening Cash Offer . Minus 30 Percent of Asking Price ?

Let's say they want $100k for the boat. You feel the boat is worth $75k. Part of the negotiation is "sending a message". Let's say you Offer $65k to start. Dont just offer, come up with reasons. (List any comparables, issues with the boat, rusty keelbolts etc.... those same things you notice have been knawing at the owner for some time also....) Maybe another sistership sold after being on the market for 2 years, had new sails etc, which this boat doesnt have. (Talk like you know that other boat... most brokers dont have a clue...) Anyway... back to the offer. You offer $65k, if the owner comes back at $98k ... forget it... you aint gonna get there. If the owner comes back at say $85k, then only come up a little... like...$69k. That sends the message that the best he's likely to do is $75k or so.... Hard to put this all in words.... hope that helps... it isnt just what you say... it's how you say it....
Part of the learning curve for "new sellers" is getting them to come to the realization that their boat is no more special than the one that sat for 2 years and finally sold for 40% less than asking. Use examples of this if you can...
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Old 24-08-2012, 12:47   #57
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Re: Opening Cash Offer . Minus 30 Percent of Asking Price ?

I just enquired about an 36 foot RV in Texas, on Wednesday night here in OZ, from an RV dealer on the internet, Google is my friend,

They wanted 20 grand, it had just been lowered from 21 grand,

I asked how much to ship it to California, They said 2 grand for shipping,

I offered 17 Grand total, including the shipping, In CASH,

I also mentioned there was a 40 footer, same model, same year, 11 Grand, also from Texas,
Easily checked, it was a real comparison,.
I said a 40 footer was a bit too big for me and Aussie mountain roads,

They came back by email, accepting the offer, I know own a 36 foot Foretravel Grand Villa diesel pusher with a 300 Cat and 4 speed auto mobile home in excellent condition, The previous owner is hooking his car up to the back of it and delivering it to California, 1500 miles away, so its registered and roadworthy to be able to drive it that far,,

Its now 4 AM Saturday morning, Not bad for 3 days work,

This was all sight unseen, except for the good quality piccys off the internet,
I wont see it until it arrives in OZ in about 3 months time,

I bought my Gemini Catamaran off the internet the same way, A lot of piccys,
A lot of shopping around, a lot of questions to be asked first,
I had paid for it in full before I even saw it, I was not dissapointed,
The previous owner actually dropped the price on it with out me even asking,

If it feels right, Just do it, They can only say no, Plus if your buying in the USA,
Their economy is crap at the moment, People are being forced to sell, They need the dollars, Luxury items have to go, Boats, Houses, Mobile homes, Etc,
The houses I mention are the big luxury homes with the super mortgages,

Not the every day homes that ordinary workers are being forced out of, I think that stinks,

Cheers,
Brian.
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Old 24-08-2012, 13:40   #58
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Re: Opening Cash Offer . Minus 30 Percent of Asking Price ?

Great ! ... Guys - I think I know how I should handle this. Thanks a lot !
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Old 24-08-2012, 14:12   #59
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Re: Opening Cash Offer . Minus 30 Percent of Asking Price ?

I forgot to add, That I had the boat hauled out and fully surveyed by a licenced surveyor at my cost before I paid a deposit,

The survey was less than flying to Fiji for a look see, So it saved me money and if the survey was crap. I just would not buy it,
and flying there was a waste of money if the boat was not up to scratch, or it was going to cost me a left knacker, my first Born, and the annual salary of GM's CEO, To fix it to sea worthy status,
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