On the Verge of Flipping-Over a Cruising Cat...

[yeloya]

I had promissed that I would let you know, if I get an answer from FP. Well, I have and guess what, from the owner Mr. Fountaine..

The answer came in just less than 24 hours and from Mr Fountaine which wasn't copied on my mail. I really appreciated the sense of urgency...

You may understand that sharing publicly a letter sent to me wouldn't be appropriate but I can give you some clue, without adding any comment. He basically says that:

-he's been sailing personally over 20.000 nm on their catamaran. (I knew this and I also know that all of his management team are keen sailors)
-they pay a lot of attention to the safety aspect of their catamaran
-Lipari was developed on the base of Lavezzi that has been manufactured over 300 since 8 years and with very good safety features, not a single event reported. She never had any stability problem so far.
-In line with consumers' demand, Lipari has been made more comfortable, slightly heavier and with exactly the same beam length and mast height. In order to not to compromise the performance, Lipari has been equipped with new top square sails that are more powerful.
-(Suprise, surprise) He says that I should have been on 2.reef on the main and the genoa quite a bit furled under these conditions. Moreover, I should have had the main sail sheet cleat easily accessable and ready to unlock it.
-all of the accidents of multihulls happens always close to the shores with sudden gusts.
-he sent to me the comparative stability data of Lavezzi and Lipari. Lipari appears to be 36 % more stable than Lavezzi and as it is, she is at the mid range of stability among 38/42 ft cruising cats.

I replied him with more or less the arguments that I posted in this forum and let's see what's gonna happen. I am pretty sure like many of the forumers agreed to, the problem is not the overall stability (resistance to roll over) but the directional stability. This might be due to undersized and or misplaced rudder. Meanwhile, I measured the rudder of Fidji and the Lavezzi; Fidji's rudder is well 45 % larger in area and is placed very closed to the aft of the hull after the propeller. (80 cm) whereas in Lavezzi (it should be very close to Lipari) the same distance is 180 cm and the prop is behind the rudder. To me that makes a lot of difference when it comes to directional stability. That's probably why Fidji could perfectly maintain her line at 14,5 kts of boat speed (almost similar conditions, 27-28 kts apparent form 90-100 degrees, flat water) while, the Liapari couldn't..

I am very pleased to see that FP is treating the issue seriously and I hope they will investigate thoroughly what must have happened, whether they tell me or not. If they do, I will share with you.

Thx again for all of yr contributions.

Yeloya

[Southern Star]

Thanks for the follow-up Yeloya; it is encouraging that FP took this seriously and that they sent a considered response. It certainly tends to confirm the multihull mantra to reef early, although I am still surprised that a production cruising cat could lift a hull in the conditions that you describe.

Brad

[snort]

This one just happened: Catamaran capsizes off Mendocino - crew rescued

[bayview]

So two cats have flipped, that we know of, during this thread.
How long before the question is asked..... Are cats safe offshore?

[D&D]

Originally Posted by bayview

So two cats have flipped, that we know of, during this thread.
How long before the question is asked..... Are cats safe offshore?

So far as we can see here, there's one cat that's flipped. Yeloya's lifted a hull but then rounded up safely, no doubt as designed. Even the cat that we see flipped off California, it remained afloat, thus perhaps saving the crew who it seems may've been otherwise without PPE.

We're not sure if bayview's remark is also intended to open another thread wherein we are all invited to produce (the many) examples of monohulls who lost or fractured their keels and sank...leaving their crew on the ocean surface with whatever they managed to grab as the vessel went under...and thus raising the question or at least with as much credibility as it was raised in this thread...are monohulls safe offshore?

[cchesley]

Hmmm, 32' catamaran--- an older Gemini perhaps?? Set off the EPIRB before capsizing??? That's interesting, perhaps had too much sail exposed but couldn't reduce it? Roller furler problem? Anyone know anything more?

[Factor]

Originally Posted by bayview

So two cats have flipped, that we know of, during this thread.
How long before the question is asked..... Are cats safe offshore?

I just finished reading three coronial files on deaths on sunken monos, how soon before the government bans boats that can sink.

For the record, Multis Flip Sometimes, - there I have said it.

Monos sink sometimes.

People get their leg cut off riding jet skis and getting run over by power boats.

[henryv]

It seems the cat that went over was a PDQ32. There is no indication of what sails they had up at the time however I would not want to be under sail when exposed to 45 knots.

[yeloya]

The way I understand from the article, what happened to this catamaran has nothing to do with my experience; much smaller boat, much more wind, much higher waves and a capsize..They must have surely gone out of control as they actuated the beacon some time before the accident. (something broken, skipper not in good shape physically/mentally, or something else, who knows..)
Again, just assuming they were cought in 45 kts of wind (a lot..) all sails up, a well design boat wouldn't capsize easyly..I happen to sail at 37-38 with gusting 40 from behind on the Orana (much bigger and heavier of course than this 32 ft) with full sail making 10-11 kts. The boat didn' t feel at all overpowered, but I put a reef later just to be safer.
Since this boat has come to the point of activating the beacon, something serious must have happened.. Any comment before we learn exactly what happened, would be senseless..
Pls keep us informed..

Cheers

Yeloya

[sandy daugherty]

Another PDQ 32 flipped. In a hurricane. It's sailing again, which is more than can be said for 40 or 50 monohulls destroyed in the vicinity by the same storm.

[tdconway]

It apparently was a 1997 Gemini. The news reports have the name of the craft as the Calypso. This boat shows as being a Gemini from and old 2hulls.com listing. There is a poor video from the news report and it looks as though it is a Gemini. However, none of the reports I saw stated precisely what kind of catamaran capsized. Nothing in the news reports about how much sail they had up, if any. Apparently, all were suffering from hypothermia. Maybe there will be more information once they have recovered.

[colemj]

Are you sure? The linked article said the boat's name was Catalyst. There was a PDQ32 named Catalyst.

Mark

[tdconway]

Yes, that article references both the "32-foot catamaran, the Cataylist," and a couple of sentences later: "At about 12:45 p.m., the Coast Guard received an Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon, or EPIRB, signal from the Calypso." Other news articles reference only the Calypso. So, there is confusion, for sure. Possibly the EPIRB was registered to the Calypso but was on-board the Catalyst. Such are news reports. Hopefully, there will be follow-up news articles detailing the exact kind of boat and what happened.

[tdconway]

EPIRBs are registered to boats via a NOAA data base in the US. If you sell your EPIRB, you must transfer the registration from one boat to the other via the NOAA data base, otherwise the Coast Guard will think the old boat is in need of help. I have absolutely no idea if this is what occurred here. I was only speculating as to how an EPIRB signal could be at variance with the actual vessel in distress. The two names reported in the news article may be both incorrect, or only one name, etc. Hopefully, there will be clarification.

[SearenitySail]

Originally Posted by colemj

Are you sure? The linked article said the boat's name was Catalyst. There was a PDQ32 named Catalyst.Mark

A quick check on the USCG Documented Vessel Name search shows a lot of boats named Catalyst, including, I believe, a PDQ and at least two manufactured by Performance Cruising (Gemini) though I don't think they were registered in California.

Marshall