No room for negotiation?

[Sojourner]

I live for negotiating and haggling...think libyan bazzar type chit But we paid full price for our monohull Amel Supermaramu. The owner was then (and turned out to be even more so over the year and a half we owned her so far) to be absolutely 100 % correct and honest about every single good and bad thing about the boat to me and to the later surveyor, and set a very fair price, which is why he refused to negotiate, and why eventually I accepted it. And was very pleased. Good job on yours!

[south4320]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Lot's of wacky ideas about purchasing a boat on this thread. Going back over 45 years of buying and selling stuff, some of which were rather high priced items, I've always researched the market beforehand to do my homework and determine what an item will sell for in the current market at a specific level of condition; then I do one of two things...

If I'm buying, I act quickly when the price and quality are right, in other words... "strike while the iron is hot."

If I'm selling, I price the item in the marketplace to hopefully attract someone who's prepared to do as I do when I'm a buyer. I'm looking for someone who can recognize quality and value, and I can't be bothered with bottom feeders, dreamers or those knuckelheads who're just wasting everyone's time. If I'm dealing with a quality item, the right buyer (translation: someone with enough money) will eventually come along.


Think in terms of CarMax as an example.... priced to sell at a fair price.

I have purchased and sold a few boats in each case paying and accepting less than the advertised price. The majority of boats advertised that I have looked at haven’t had honest descriptions including photos many years old etc. That’s why we need surveyors. A seller knows his boat and it’s faults and good points, the buyer doesn’t so it not unreasonable to expect the buyer to put less value on the boat than the seller. Just because I make a lower offer than the asking price doesn’t make me a bottom feeder. Why are you offended by buyers making you an offer when on another thread you bragged about the low prices you were able to buy equipment for
Re changing upperbound of boat size considered suitable for couples

Originally Posted by Kenomac

The current dinghy on our Oyster 62 cost $1300 complete with a 15hp Like new Mercury 2 stroke. The dinghy on our Hunter 450 cost $1700 with a new Tohatsu 6.5hp.

I just purchased a like new Mercury 40hp 2 stroke for the dinghy on the 62 for $1200 to upgrade the set up. I know many who spend more than that on tenders for much smaller boats including 40 footers.

Earlier today I purchased a KVH TracPhone V3ip sat internet dish and modem for $1800 complete with cables. If you check West Marine prices, the same set retails for $13,999.

I guess it pays to shop around... you should try it sometime.

Perhaps you should look up the meaning of bottom feeder I think it is more applicable to some one paying $1800.00 for a $13,999.00 piece of equipment.
Good on you for your bargain purchases, whenever I can I do the same and a lot of my equipment is secondhand with lots of life left in it.
Unfortunately Ken you come across in a lot of your posts as arrogant, whether that is the reality or not I don’t know. Emails and online postings can do that sometimes and face to face we could be the best of friends. Although I am only a newbie poster I have been reading threads for many years but have only just retired and now have more time to post.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by south4320

I have purchased and sold a few boats in each case paying and accepting less than the advertised price. The majority of boats advertised that I have looked at haven’t had honest descriptions including photos many years old etc. That’s why we need surveyors. A seller knows his boat and it’s faults and good points, the buyer doesn’t so it not unreasonable to expect the buyer to put less value on the boat than the seller. Just because I make a lower offer than the asking price doesn’t make me a bottom feeder. Why are you offended by buyers making you an offer when on another thread you bragged about the low prices you were able to buy equipment for
Re changing upperbound of boat size considered suitable for couples


Perhaps you should look up the meaning of bottom feeder I think it is more applicable to some one paying $1800.00 for a $13,999.00 piece of equipment.
Good on you for your bargain purchases, whenever I can I do the same and a lot of my equipment is secondhand with lots of life left in it.
Unfortunately Ken you come across in a lot of your posts as arrogant, whether that is the reality or not I don’t know. Emails and online postings can do that sometimes and face to face we could be the best of friends. Although I am only a newbie poster I have been reading threads for many years but have only just retired and now have more time to post.

Nowhere in my posts does it indicate that “I’m offended” by lower offers... those are your words.

Personally... I couldn’t care any less as to whether or not you agree or disagree with the opionions expressed in my posts.

Please have a nice day.

[south4320]

Thanks you too

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Zzmeyer

One of the nice things about a boat is it very seldom makes economic sense.

Ain't that the awful truth!

[CatNewBee]

Well there are two ways for a seller to valuate his boat, he can ask the price he will be willing to accept, comparing the boat to other offers on the market. If you offer a much lower price without even visiting the boat, he might not answer your offer or reject it.

Or, he valuates the boat, thinks about what he would accept as minimal offer, then adds 50% for you to give you some success negotiating. He still would reject you offer if it is below his base line, but will counter offer in the price range between his base line and the asking price.

Following this thread, I am inclined to go for version 2, some people simply do not value an honest offer and expect dramatic discounts. Well, be it, maybe 100% negotiation range would be even better when going in that market areas.

I wonder always, how people shop discounts and not products. It's like a feeding frenzy, just put a mark 50%off and 10% on the reduced fantasy price, and they buy, put the same price tag on without the words sale, discount or clearance, and nobody would even consider buying.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by DockDoc

I have gone 'full retard' and started making offers on Catamarans. I have made 3 different offers on Cats each with a broker listing price of above 450k USD. My offers have all been within 92-95% of list price.

So far ever offer has been met with a "they won't take less than the list price". No counter, just a flat 'nope'.
I have purchased a few things before in my life that cost a pretty penny, and without exception, there was always the list price, and then some room for negotiation, offers, counter offers etc.

Is this just a market-driven phenomenon that is unique to Catamarans, or sailboats in general? Perhaps it's the maternal Portuguese blood in me but I just can't seem to pay the asking price for something without a good haggle!

I have decided to lick my wounds, lay low until mid-February and remount an attack.

Any advice? Am I being too stubborn, foolish, naive?

I know I will get the "buy directly from the owner" advice, but that scenario is full of emotional sellers entanglements I don't want to deal with. Been there done that, no thank you.

That's exactly my issue as well. Half the crap on the boats are broken and they still won't negotiate...

[smj]

We have always priced boats and houses at market or slightly below and sold for or very close to asking price quickly. To me it beats sitting on the market for months or years devaluing.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by zboss

That's exactly my issue as well. Half the crap on the boats are broken and they still won't negotiate...

If you're both looking for big cats, isn't it still the case that it's a seller's market because of the hurricane losses?

Did you inspect the boats personally before making offers? They might be worth the asking price...

In that position, if I was satisfied that the boat was worth close to the asking, I might offer the asking, contingent on a satisfactory survey, then use any significant found defects to beat the price down a bit.

[CatNewBee]

It's a culture issue too, in some countries, you don't negotiate much, if you are willing to buy, you pay the price. In some countries, negotiating is a ritual and both sides know it they will meet at an usual discount, the seller will claim, it was a rip off and his children will starve and the buyer will claim he had made the deal of a lifetime, but neither will really gain much.

[LeeV]

And then there’s the issue of buyers (often newbies) looking at attractive boats just (or far) beyond their means, and hoping they can get into them by offering an extremely low price. Sadly, they also forget operating costs like insurance, dockage, repairs, etc...

Even after 5 boats and looking for our final (hah!) Cat, I sometimes find myself eyeing something I shouldn’t!

[CatNewBee]

As long as the prices for new cats rise while the space on board shrinks and you have to wait at least one year for delivery, and hurricanes wreck entire charter fleets now and then, low interest rates and inflation decrease the value of the currency, you can expect easy reselling a 5yo cat in good shape for the initial purchase price.
The value depreciation matches almost the inflation and the yearly net price increase on new boats of comparable size.

[earthbm]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

As long as the prices for new cats rise while the space on board shrinks and you have to wait at least one year for delivery, and hurricanes wreck entire charter fleets now and then, low interest rates and inflation decrease the value of the currency, you can expect easy reselling a 5yo cat in good shape for the initial purchase price.
The value depreciation matches almost the inflation and the yearly net price increase on new boats of comparable size.

Is this statement based on actual secondary sales data? Or listed prices?

[LeeV]

Originally Posted by earthbm

Is this statement based on actual secondary sales data? Or listed prices?

Well, looking over some of the sales sheets put out by Wiley Sharp and my own recent research, I can tell you some boats (Helia 44 Evo, Leopard 46, Orana 44) have retained almost cult-like pricing.

[CatNewBee]

It is just the market value, people pay even premiums on production slots reservations to get the boat earlier.