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Old 14-07-2009, 05:06   #76
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Rick, my points are thus:

1) Anyone can post in any forum, just as you have posted criticism of monos in the monohull forum (yes, I checked your claim).

2) I have experience on cruising cats -- two week-long cruises in the Gulf of Thailand. That doesn't qualify me to have an opinion?

3) You explicitly impugned the good work of the moderators here (and it isn't the first time). To wit: Apparently moderation is curtailed in these cases as moderators join in the 'fun'. I thought it was important to point out that the single moderator "joining in the fun" was on your side.
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Old 14-07-2009, 05:13   #77
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And all of this helps to answer the original posters question precisely how?
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Old 14-07-2009, 05:19   #78
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And all of this helps to answer the original posters question precisely how?
By separating good from bad information and wild claims from logical conclusions.
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Old 14-07-2009, 05:22   #79
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Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
A bit of video from last nights news showing the superb tracking ability of a cat.

Video - The Courier-Mail

The uninitiated find it amazing

Multihullers laugh at their amazement of something so ordinary.

They also showed a powered vessel (mono) on the news on the same day .

It broached quite impressively and narrowly missed spearing into the rock wall.


I have always found the ability to surf a bar or any wave, a very important factor in choice of vessel.

D


Mmmmmmm, Something so ordinary??
A Lightwave 35 catamaran pitch-poled on the Wide-bay bar doing pretty much the same thing, and a Tri broached and almost clobbered the breakwater of a NSW bar a while back (as covered by Factors favorite magazine ).

I noticed the vessel in the video struggled to bare off at the start of the surf. Things turned out well in the end. Most experience multi sailors understand the "fine line between pleasure and pain" when surfing a bar. Certainly a multi owner is not guaranteed success. We normally deploy towed warps early if a bar crossing with a likely surf is necessary.


44c, I'm not surprised you managed 192 mile days with following winds, judging by the cabin profile on that particular boat..
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Old 14-07-2009, 05:37   #80
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Mmmmmmm,
Are you stuttering - did your finger get caught on the keyboard or is the string of ms supposed to mean something?


Quote:
A Lightwave 35 catamaran pitch-poled on the Wide-bay bar doing pretty much the same thing
,

It was a 38 not that that matters much. ( well it might actually - the 38 is different from about the aft end of the mini keels back - its not just a matter of tacking a few feet on the end.) But you know - accuracy and all that. We are talking about Ridgey Didge - correct? - well I disagree with what you say, it went over - but it went over not because it was surfing.

For the uninitiated that boat is still happily cruising the finer parts of the world.

Quote:
I noticed the vessel in the video struggled to bare off at the start of the surf.
Did it - I couldnt see the skippers intentions or rudder positions from where I was watching.
Quote:
Things turned out well in the end. Most experience multi sailors understand the "fine line between pleasure and pain" when surfing a bar.
Very True
Quote:
Certainly a multi owner is not guaranteed success.
Equally true but I would have hated to be in a deep keel flat bottomed big beam mono, some other designs styles would have faired better.

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We normally deploy towed warps early if a bar crossing with a likely surf is necessary.
Yes - but I prefer a drogue that has an inbuilt resistance to going forward as simple rope warps can easily get caught in the props.

Ultimately that was very impressive to watch - but I wouldn't have wanted to have to do it.
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Old 14-07-2009, 05:58   #81
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Are you stuttering - did your finger get caught on the keyboard or is the string of ms supposed to mean something?


,

It was a 38 not that that matters much. ( well it might actually - the 38 is different from about the aft end of the mini keels back - its not just a matter of tacking a few feet on the end.) But you know - accuracy and all that. We are talking about Ridgey Didge - correct? - well I disagree with what you say, it went over - but it went over not because it was surfing.

For the uninitiated that boat is still happily cruising the finer parts of the world.



Did it - I couldnt see the skippers intentions or rudder positions from where I was watching.


Very True


Equally true but I would have hated to be in a deep keel flat bottomed big beam mono, some other designs styles would have faired better.


Yes - but I prefer a drogue that has an inbuilt resistance to going forward as simple rope warps can easily get caught in the props.

Ultimately that was very impressive to watch - but I wouldn't have wanted to have to do it.
Mmmmmm, Very vigilant factor, it should have read.... Lightwave 35 with transom extensions. Big difference?.

Soooo you don't attach your drogue with rope? It must get expensive throwing all those unattached drogues off the stern.
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Old 14-07-2009, 06:17   #82
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I think if I can get my cat to do 5 knots in 7 knots of wind on the quarter. It qualifies for being able to sail in light wind....ITHINK?......lolololol.....i2f
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Old 14-07-2009, 06:48   #83
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Atlantic 42 and Cspots, thanks for trying to get this thread back on track. Rick, while acknolwedging some provocation, I think you are getting a little thin-skinned: anyone can contribute to any thread, but typically, bold, inaccurate and unsubstantiated claims will be justly criticized, as happened here. Furthermore, I would suggest that in discussing multihulls or monohulls, some element of comparison is not only appropriate, but necessary in order to avoid analysis in a vacuum.

In any event, do others agree with me that: 1. the question posed in the original post has been decisively answered in the affirmative; 2. That those who wish to engage in generalized cat or mono bashing, or 'my boat is better than your boat' discussions, should perhaps start another thread?

Brad
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Old 14-07-2009, 07:18   #84
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Amen Brother!
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Old 14-07-2009, 07:57   #85
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There's no need to heel under anything resembling normal conditions. Shorten sail, let down the traveler, shift weight.
Then I'd loose the sensation I have come to associate with sailing! (a LOT of my mono experience has been from racing.) We were pretty much heeled all the time, except for a downwind course. So, this is to suggest, that I don't have a valid opinion about "cruising" in a mono hull. I do know that my thought process changes while cruising, and while racing. The thought of racing in my cruising cat has no appeal to me! The thought of cruising in the mono hulls I have been in, has little appeal to me, now (Well maybe except for that 70 foot Hylas!). At anchor, folks used to come to our boat because we had the space and could sit 8 very comfortably outside, and 6 inside. We had plenty of table space. At night we didn't rock. When boat went past we didn't notice their wake. We have space for solar panels. Go forward we have plenty of walking space. We don't have to tow our dinghy or put it on the coach roof... All of these are just PERSONAL things that make cruising in a cat more enjoyable to US. This is only my experience and I would not suggest that anyone else would have the same opinion.

From a safety perspective, I have suggested that the risk poised by the actions of the crew are FAR more significant than the risks poised by differences in platforms. I have been aground because I was not attentive (or was trying to give way to a VERY large barge in the ICW). I have dragged because I anchored in the wrong spots. I have lost electricity cause I didn't properly tighten a connection, I have lost power cause I didn't check the fuel level, I have been caught out because I didn't reef early... Not because of the platform. I do have to admit however that having an extra engine has gotten me out of unpleasant situations more than once! I got grounded and I could rock the engines back and forth an pull myself off. When I lost electricity (starter shorted!) I disconnected the one engine, replaced the fuse, turned on the other engine and got to my destination only 1/2 hour later than otherwise. When I ran out of fuel, I just switched to the other engine and continued on (I did have extra fuel jugs, but it was at night and I don't fuel at night, alone, while underway).

I imagine I'd be caught in a hurricane, underway, cause I didn't do appropriate weather planning or monitor the forecast. But, I would have my sea anchor, I would have practiced its deployment and retrieval. I do have a ditch bag ready, I would have drilled on emergency procedures... All which helps, but it is by no means safer than sitting in my house watching TV till I croak from boredom.
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Old 14-07-2009, 08:26   #86
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Then I'd loose the sensation I have come to associate with sailing! (a LOT of my mono experience has been from racing.) We were pretty much heeled all the time, except for a downwind course. So, this is to suggest, that I don't have a valid opinion about "cruising" in a mono hull. I do know that my thought process changes while cruising, and while racing. The thought of racing in my cruising cat has no appeal to me! The thought of cruising in the mono hulls I have been in, has little appeal to me, now (Well maybe except for that 70 foot Hylas!). At anchor, folks used to come to our boat because we had the space and could sit 8 very comfortably outside, and 6 inside. We had plenty of table space. At night we didn't rock. When boat went past we didn't notice their wake. We have space for solar panels. Go forward we have plenty of walking space. We don't have to tow our dinghy or put it on the coach roof... All of these are just PERSONAL things that make cruising in a cat more enjoyable to US. This is only my experience and I would not suggest that anyone else would have the same opinion.

From a safety perspective, I have suggested that the risk poised by the actions of the crew are FAR more significant than the risks poised by differences in platforms. I have been aground because I was not attentive (or was trying to give way to a VERY large barge in the ICW). I have dragged because I anchored in the wrong spots. I have lost electricity cause I didn't properly tighten a connection, I have lost power cause I didn't check the fuel level, I have been caught out because I didn't reef early... Not because of the platform. I do have to admit however that having an extra engine has gotten me out of unpleasant situations more than once! I got grounded and I could rock the engines back and forth an pull myself off. When I lost electricity (starter shorted!) I disconnected the one engine, replaced the fuse, turned on the other engine and got to my destination only 1/2 hour later than otherwise. When I ran out of fuel, I just switched to the other engine and continued on (I did have extra fuel jugs, but it was at night and I don't fuel at night, alone, while underway).

I imagine I'd be caught in a hurricane, underway, cause I didn't do appropriate weather planning or monitor the forecast. But, I would have my sea anchor, I would have practiced its deployment and retrieval. I do have a ditch bag ready, I would have drilled on emergency procedures... All which helps, but it is by no means safer than sitting in my house watching TV till I croak from boredom.
No disagreements here. I actually sort of like to heel a bit too (being a racer too!). I was only suggesting that if you don't like that sensation, there are ways to counter it.
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Old 14-07-2009, 08:42   #87
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Atlantic 42 and Cspots, thanks for trying to get this thread back on track. Rick, while acknolwedging some provocation, I think you are getting a little thin-skinned: anyone can contribute to any thread, but typically, bold, inaccurate and unsubstantiated claims will be justly criticized, as happened here. Furthermore, I would suggest that in discussing multihulls or monohulls, some element of comparison is not only appropriate, but necessary in order to avoid analysis in a vacuum.

In any event, do others agree with me that: 1. the question posed in the original post has been decisively answered in the affirmative; 2. That those who wish to engage in generalized cat or mono bashing, or 'my boat is better than your boat' discussions, should perhaps start another thread?

Brad

I agree and I nominate sneuman's, 16 posts here and counting as a new record, (exceeding FastCat/ Joli). Lets just call him the newest 'Monohull Wombat Virus' trying to infect the Multihull community...tongaboys
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Old 14-07-2009, 09:14   #88
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Magothy motoring?

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at the risk of raising ire here

I have been struck in the past few years at how many catamarans are seen motoring in ideal sailing conditions in the admittedly confined waters of the Magothy R. and the Chesapeake. I see this on all points of sail, but especially on a beat (which is to be expected). When most of the monos are out there sailing, many of the cats are motoring.

It's just a personal observation, most assuredly subject to my biases. Has anyone else noticed this?
HIJACK CONTINUES:

Having lived on the Magothy for 11 years (1994 - 2005), I was never struck by this observation.

I will note that the roughly WNW - ESE orientation of the river makes beating up the river the norm since the prevailing winds are generally from the NW. Since it is only about 6nm from the mouth to the navigable limits, many boaters returning from a sail on the bay motor this stretch. We typically sailed this part because the river is quite wide after you get past its pinched mouth until you reach Ferry Point (The Moorings townhouse community).

I have noticed that there are way more monos than multis on the Magothy compared to the greater Chesapeake Bay. I would be surprised if you could gather any meaningful observation on mono v multi here.

OK - back to the mono v multi bashing! (Man ,this is SOOO OLD. Could we please just watch a soap opera? At least they have attractive people to watch!)
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Old 14-07-2009, 09:45   #89
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HIJACK CONTINUES:

Having lived on the Magothy for 11 years (1994 - 2005), I was never struck by this observation.

I will note that the roughly WNW - ESE orientation of the river makes beating up the river the norm since the prevailing winds are generally from the NW. Since it is only about 6nm from the mouth to the navigable limits, many boaters returning from a sail on the bay motor this stretch. We typically sailed this part because the river is quite wide after you get past its pinched mouth until you reach Ferry Point (The Moorings townhouse community).

I have noticed that there are way more monos than multis on the Magothy compared to the greater Chesapeake Bay. I would be surprised if you could gather any meaningful observation on mono v multi here.

OK - back to the mono v multi bashing! (Man ,this is SOOO OLD. Could we please just watch a soap opera? At least they have attractive people to watch!)
Yagao,

You are correct on all counts here. I too prefer to beat back up the river, something about 1/3rd of the monos and virtually none of the multis I've bother to do.

I don't see that many multis on the Bay, either, however. I suppose having to beat up and down rivers (either on the eastern or western shores), coupled with the expense and availability of double-wide berths, might keep them to a minimum on these waters.

Having said that, I have a couple who own a big cat and do a lot more cruising on the Chesapeake than I can ever seem to manage.
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Old 14-07-2009, 14:41   #90
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