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Old 13-07-2009, 16:46   #61
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Oh?

From the mono 200 mile thread. But it's ok, just a fun comment from 44CC, nothing mean spirited.
Seems like the comment was fact

I don't see how it was dissing

If it was a made up comment I would see it differently

D
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Old 13-07-2009, 16:56   #62
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A bit of video from last nights news showing the superb tracking ability of a cat.

Video - The Courier-Mail

The uninitiated find it amazing

Multihullers laugh at their amazement of something so ordinary.

They also showed a powered vessel (mono) on the news on the same day .

It broached quite impressively and narrowly missed spearing into the rock wall.

I have always found the ability to surf a bar or any wave, a very important factor in choice of vessel.

D
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Old 13-07-2009, 19:24   #63
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I am impressed with the buoyancy of those (narrow) bows.
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Old 13-07-2009, 19:35   #64
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That was a nice bit of steering, but I've got to agree with cat man do, not far out of the ordinary. Twin hulls, twin rudders, twin engines, twin keels or boards really give a degree of tracking and maneuverability that you just can't get in monos. We've had to pull similar maneuvers a couple of times and while they got the heart rate up a bit, we didn't feel in danger or even close to a loss of control.

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Old 13-07-2009, 19:49   #65
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Frankly, I don't see any reason why monohullers can't comment in any thread they like. I have done offshore passages on two catamarans and may someday own one.
I respectfully disagree. Why should a mono guy pop up to give an answer to a multihull question to which he probably has no experience? Or at the very least failed to state it. This wasn't the way this forum was built. What's more, I would never even consider posting in an advice thread where I didn't have the experience to answer. The great thing about this forum is the diversity of experience, not nonsensical answers to multihull questions.

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Rick, it's also odd that you'd suggest you don't get your say here. Our profiles show that we joined the same month and year and yet you have posted almost exactly twice as often as I have.
I didn't suggest any such thing. What I regret is mono guys starting a cat fight where all the original poster was trying to do was to gather information. As for my posting frequency, my average of one a day is all I have time for. Apparently you have even greater demands on your time. At any rate, your point on posting frequency is?

Frankly I wonder why you find anything I post as 'odd' or why you leaped to defend what appears to be an unqualified post.
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Old 13-07-2009, 20:04   #66
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Rick,

Any member is free to post in any of the CF forums. As long as the debate stays civil, and no other rules are broken, there's no cause for moderator action.

Apparently, it is your view, at least in this post, that any poster can pop onto any thread which is asking advice, and offer it? Regardless of experience? No experience opinions are solicited and welcome?

Now that's a pretty interesting view considering that other moderators on this board definitely do not subscribe to this philosophy. I do believe I've seen Gord publicly correct dozens, if not hundreds of posters over the years.

How do you reconcile this? And why did you choose to do it publicly?
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Old 13-07-2009, 20:35   #67
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Apparently, it is your view, at least in this post, that any poster can pop onto any thread which is asking advice, and offer it?
My view exactly just in case there is a vote going on (there isn't). Those that reply can be judged by those that read without commentary or fear that some one will attack them because of the view they hold. If folks are nice they can join in where they will without fear that anyone else will deride their comments. It's the promise we want to keep.

If you have specific complaints about someones reply you can direct it to any moderator and we will investigate all requests. We don't charge for the service and are happy to do so. We take that commitment seriously because we agreed to be here. It's the only important thing we do aside from sweeping up the trash. Should you choose to go after them yourself we can easily show you which way is north soonest. It is what we moderators do and we insist you do not attempt to try this at home yourself.
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Old 13-07-2009, 20:59   #68
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For your proposed trip from San Diego to the Caribbean almost any catamaran would be suitable. As long as you don't have a schedule and mind your weather. Once you get through the Panama canal you'll likely be doing a bit of sailing to weather to get to the Virgin Islands... even if you try to wait for the perfect weather doing some to weather work is inevitable for this passage. At this point the catamaran you select will make a difference on your comfort and fun levels... some designs work better for passage making to weather than others designed for calm anchorages and term charters. Regardless of your choice of boats, you'll still get there alive and well.
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Old 13-07-2009, 21:00   #69
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I currently own a mono, I have owned a Tri, and if I could have figured out where to put the fish hold, I probably would have bought/built a Cat.. If I had discovered this forum prior to buying my current love, I probably would have asked for opinions and advice of how to put a fish hold on a Cat. And then I would have went ahead done what I personally thought was correct with out a backward glance. When I am in a position to sail around at leisure, I will probably go with a cat., I still have to figure out how to put a fish hold on it though.
I believe that any well found vessel operated correctly by the right crew can make ocean passages safely.
Yes Virginia, you can cross the ocean on a Catamaran, and not die, if you are reasonably smart and a little bit lucky.
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Old 13-07-2009, 22:10   #70
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The same type of argument was made when “plastic” boats started to replace wood – and its great that some people still like to travel by horse. Enjoy your choice of boats, but please don't tell me its because of safety. But it is fun to challenge different ideas.



Without getting into the “lies, damned lies, and statistics” arguments of the safety controversy, there are several very real safety advantages of a catamaran for cruising . Redundancy is an important safety factor. Although most sailboats have an engine, which could be considered redundant, most feel this is so important that they carry numerous spare parts. I carry a whole spare engine, which is ready to go in a moments notice. Not to mention the maneuverability with the twin engines. I also have a spare rudder, and a spare keel (and hull).


The motion is definitely different, and less predictable, which some people don't like, but for most, it is not as tiring and allows better rest, and better decision making. I think sailing upwind in any seas on a cat is more tiring (so try to avoid it, or motorsail), but on a reach is much faster and more comfortable, and downwind is much more comfortable. Being easy to manage shorthanded is also a major safety factor, but may be related more to boat size and layout than how many hulls.


At an anchorage, in the salon (saloon after 5) you are not down below, out of the line of sight, but in full view of your surroundings (granted, if I wanted to sail to ugly places, I would choose a mono). This gives a good opportunity to see that boat dragging down on you, or the shore getting closer.


I hope even the diehards would agree that the motion of a multi at anchor is much easier than on a mono. And because of the shallower draft, anchoring choices also improve – and nobody has yet suggested that anchoring is more expensive than a marina. Also, when you arrive at your destination you don't feel so beat up that you have to get off the boat (even if just to stay in a hotel for a few nights). I haven't stayed in many marinas, but so far it hasn't been because of any lack of availability, or increased cost of slips for a cat. Indeed, I would suggest that the cat is cheaper at a marina than a mono of similar space. Add in the generally higher resale value of a cat, and the cost disadvantage also starts to fizzle.


While there are lots of good reasons to want or have a monohull, I don't see many advantages of monos (and safety isn't one of them), except very low used boat prices currently (quite possibly a critical issue), and perhaps sailing in very cold climates, since a mono should be easier to heat.


We all have our own preferences. Enjoy your choice, but don't make it because of “dogma” . Open your mind and see the light side - get the lead out.
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Old 14-07-2009, 00:07   #71
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Another way to look at the whole double redundancy with regards to Cats, is there is also the double maintenance issues and holes in the bottom of the hulls.
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Old 14-07-2009, 00:19   #72
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How do you work that out - I have a hole for the sounder - one for the log, one for the holding tank drain, two for seawater input. Thats it. How is that double the holes?
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Old 14-07-2009, 03:45   #73
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If people reckon that a cat is not suitable for world cruising, perhaps someone should have told the polynesians, who used them for hundreds of years for this task.

Monohulls are a much more recent craft derived from basically unstable log canoes, with a big pendulum weight added for stability, probably cause the rest of the world have not had the technology to make decent cats until the end of the last century

Any query about bad weather capability is more than adequately explained by Dave at Welcome to Maxing Out

Provided you do enough to keep a cat down to a safe speed, then IMHO they are a lot safer than a mono in bad weather.
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Old 14-07-2009, 04:55   #74
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I consider the comments by CC44 personal opinion (ie made up comment) regarding speed.

I look at passage logs, rally results and if the Caribbean 600 is a fair indication then a Gunboat 48 is slower then a 46 foot mono. I look at results from the Heiniken Reggatta and see a First 29 is quicker around a triangle then a Lagoon 44. Those results indicate to me that the hype of superior speed is very over sold for almost any production multi. I wonder what the speeds will be when loaded for cruising. I look around when cruising the Caribbean and never see a cat sailing upwind, only motoring. What does that say?

But, the original question is about safety. I would think for the trip the OP has in mind any decent production cat will do but the beat from the Panama Canal to the islands will not be much fun.

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Seems like the comment was fact

I don't see how it was dissing

If it was a made up comment I would see it differently

D
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Old 14-07-2009, 05:00   #75
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The mono hulls we have sailed in, we found the healing to be exciting for about the first 2 hours, then tedious for the next 4 hours, then somewhat torturous after that.
There's no need to heel under anything resembling normal conditions. Shorten sail, let down the traveler, shift weight.
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