is longer really more expensive?

[smj]

Some say buy as long of a waterline as you can afford, and others say buy as short as you feel comfortable with.

[wayne.b]

Originally Posted by Heath68

Hi All,

At the risk of being the 3rd "live" debate about the costs of running cats, I have been trying to convince myself (and the Mrs) that 6ft extra boat (cat) shouldn't be too much more money.
.
.
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Basically the cats we love are all 50 footers but we won't take them on if the ongoing cost is really miles more than a 44.. its making sure our cloth is cut properly.

Any info and help or suggestions would be appreciated.

===

Don't forget the cost of insurance which will tend to vary in proportion to boat value, not length.

[Lepke]

I have little cat experience, but a longer boat will have a better hull speed, more room for comforts and so on. I live on an 83' power boat and have laundry, dishwasher, 2 freezers and many other house sized appliances. The mains are the same size as you find in boats half as long, so fuel economy is good. The boat is also a lot safer than a smaller boat. I have a private dock for winter and usually anchor when cruising. If I want, I can go months w/o supplies.
It's all in what you want and what you're comfortable traveling in.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by ausaviator

Get on-board a Lagoon 38.
Then get on-board a Lagoon 40.

It's like there's 2 extra feet in every section of the boat. It doesn't make sense!

lagoon 38 is old school boat, lagoon 40 is new school boat, including latest discoveries in hydrodynamics and aerodynamics.

uneducated say it is to cater better for chartering.

maybe you ask owners of L42, why they have bought it in such massive numbers new generation boat.

[44'cruisingcat]

LOL! Thanks for the laugh!

[smj]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

LOL! Thanks for the laugh!

I’m glad you said something, it was killing me holding back! Aerodynamic? 🤪🤪🤪🤪

[arsenelupiga]

maybe, you guys should open your mind, and actually try to learn something new.

I am trying my best to educate you, but if you do not cooperate, i am wasting my effort.

[Jim Cate]

including latest discoveries in hydrodynamics and aerodynamics.

OK, if you are truly trying to educate us, why don't you show us the "latest discoveries" instead of making unsupported statements? You sound more like a used car salesman than an educator when you talk like this.

Jim

[44'cruisingcat]

It would also be interesting to know the proportion of these "new tech" boats that are put into charter vs private use, compared to "old tech" boats like Outremer and the like.

[FlyingScot]

You are braver than I am, and many others from what I read here. I'm starting on small 30' mono to get a handle on the costs of the lifestyle. The plan is then to upgrade to a 36-42 catamaran. Selling your house and spending almost all of that on a boat/upgrades sounds awesome but also risky. Everything will likely cost more than you think. More things will pop up that are solved by money than can be thought of here. This might be fine initially but I try to minimize things that bleed too much money, or especially when not being used. I'm still trying to grow the net worth and live off investments. If I were you I would start smaller, invest the rest of the money, work less and play more. My goal is to be able to cruise as long as I want without running out of money. Seems a lot of others misjudge and the dream falls apart. If the boat size becomes an issue, you can upgrade with more knowledge of what you really want/need/value.

-Chris

[Gr8Jeepin]

Originally Posted by Heath68

We're selling the house and can get a cat up to around $800k without a loan. So we can plumb for an older 50 or newer 44 and stick the change in the bank.
I'll still be earning en-route so "reasonable" ongoing costs of a 44 don't worry me at all... It's not knowing how much extra the 50ft is likely to cost me...

Heath - you have received a lot of good advice on how costs ramp up (disproportionately) as the boat gets bigger.

You also have access to several blogs and posts online of fellow cruisers and the yearly costs.

Before you get too hung up on exact size of 40, 44 or 50 foot... why don't you go barefoot charter a 40? 44? 50? I think you will be surprised how big a 44 really is...

There is a video that has often been quoted on this site, and it discusses that some parts of your decision are going to be a compromise. Either size, cost, or performance.

With the budget you have; I would be tempted to buy a two to three year old 44 and have plenty of money to do whatever I wanted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKQ3Gv3JTLo&t=210s

[Heath68]

Originally Posted by LeeV

I won't repeat all the intelligent wisdom shared thus far, but I would suggest that before you dismiss any boat ("Leopards are too heavy and slow") you reconsider based on your usage and goal....

Just sayin', hope for the best, plan for the worst.

Regards,

Thanks LeeV

To clarify (and probably horror some readers) our usage and desires, we are a couple who want to spend 6-8years travelling the globe and consequently want a cat no more than 5 years old. We have never owned a boat but over the last 3 years in preparation for this have attended various sailing/mechanic/1st Aid courses and chartered each year.

I have a controlled excitement about the venture and want to make one boat purchase only. I'm looking for a cat with probably better than charter boat performance but am not so bothered by it that I'm looking for a dagger board/carbon solution. Due to the distance (round the world) I discounted some cats as the helm was not protected enough or the boom needed a ladder. Now I know we could do it in a smaller cat but if we have the money and would feel happier with the space why should we (it is after all going to be our home). Plus we are downsizing from an 8000sqft house so 44ft seems ok for us but sub 44 just seemed a bit tight.

Whilst learning what we want my "dream boat" choice has gone from Sunreef 58 to Antares 44 to St Francis 50 to Helia 44 to Privilege series 5 and Xquisite X5. We've done factory tours in Nautitech and FP and been to boat shows on 3 continents looking at all sorts. Currently our dream boat list looks like this:

1. Xquisite 50/Dean 5000 (like the tech, 3 cabins, solid if not a bit slow)
2. Privilege series 5 or 515 (Love the 3 cabin layout, bit quicker than No1 & can be shaft drive)
3. St Francis 50 (Quick enough, shaft drive but interior not quite a match on 1&2)
4. FP Helia 44 (good stable cat with reasonable performance)

we discounted the following for sometimes maybe silly things..
Soana - £100k extra over Helia for extra 15" looked like a rip off.
Leopard 44 & 48 - slower than equal sized FP and couldn't see the front of the boat from the helm.
Lagoon - 440 & 50 boom too high, 470 too old, 450s at the show just seemed like it was made with flat pack furniture (more so than Helia or Leopard)
Nautitech, Outremer & Catana - unprotected helm and felt too small unless we looked at 50ft+ and then it became too long.
Sunreef 58 - luxurious but too big and too slow
Chris White - $$$$
Balance - 451 inside too small for Admiral and 526 is getting very long and lots of space is wasted on a shower room big enough for a rugby squad.
Dazcat, Catathai 52 - quick but long and sparse
Discovery 50 - lovely boat but no hard rear bimini
Neel 51 - Stunning, ticks loads of boxes but is just HUGE for a couple to handle.
Knysna 500 - on the radar but don't know enough about it yet.

Antares - ticks TONS of boxes but $expensive and for that money we just don't want to have to share a head with guests and you still look at the sea through jam jar bottoms in the side of the hull (this is the boat that actually keeps pushing us back to 50ft cats as we love the interior, design and build.. we just can't find another one under 50ft)... and so we're back to our top 4.

**The above is only our opinion.
Maybe I should put it like this.. we have a monthly all-in sailing budget of about $7000 and the Admiral is worried that on a 50ft cat we'll spend too much of that on maintenance and upkeep of the boat and not enough of it eating and drinking. (we're food critics and amateur chef hoping to taste our way round the globe and vblog/blog it whilst we just have fun!)

Any advice gratefully received.. and thanks for all those posted thus far

[Heath68]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

You are braver than I am, and many others from what I read here. I'm starting on small 30' mono to get a handle on the costs of the lifestyle. The plan is then to upgrade to a 36-42 catamaran. Selling your house and spending almost all of that on a boat/upgrades sounds awesome but also risky. Everything will likely cost more than you think. More things will pop up that are solved by money than can be thought of here. This might be fine initially but I try to minimize things that bleed too much money, or especially when not being used. I'm still trying to grow the net worth and live off investments. If I were you I would start smaller, invest the rest of the money, work less and play more. My goal is to be able to cruise as long as I want without running out of money. Seems a lot of others misjudge and the dream falls apart. If the boat size becomes an issue, you can upgrade with more knowledge of what you really want/need/value.

-Chris

Thanks Chris, I haven't the time (getting older every day) not to be brave (and do your option of getting comfortable with boats).. besides.. I'll learn on the go. We will still have a house as a base, just not as big as the current one.

[Jim Cate]

Now I know we could do it in a smaller cat but if we have the money and would feel happier with the space why should we (it is after all going to be our home).

With this basis for your decision, why are you asking the question posed in the title to the thread? Of course bigger boats are more expensive... I bet you really knew that all along. Everything about them is more expensive, from outfitting through fuel costs and all the other factors that have been mentioned. Some of the differences are trivial,some are far from trivial, and some can be really significant... like finding a yard that can slip your huge boat. Sometimes that can be an urgent need and one that can't readily be fixed by throwing money at it. In some places, no worries. Others, no help available!

Anyhow, I'm of the group that thinks buying a big and complicated boat for your first cruise is somewhere between risky and foolish. Obviously, others disagree, and they could be right... I'm pretty conservative fiscally and with regard to seamanship, perhaps unreasonably so. Time will tell for you and your dream, and I hope for a happy outcome.

Jim

[tp12]

A man of means who has done his research, education and preparation over three years, is trying to more accurately estimate what the real delta in maintenance costs are between 44' and 50'. Seems a rational question as part of a logical planning process. An excellent approach, in my opinion.