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Old 03-09-2006, 17:31   #1
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OK guys, what kind of cat and how fast have you had her ? I was recently sailing in the San Juan Islands on a Manta 42 in 18 knots of wind we got Ninja going 8.2 for a minute but it wasn't really that exciting and it felt like you were driving a bus (as one of the other crew put it). I chartered a Moorings 38 down in Belize and had her going 9.5 in 22 knots steady. I didn't think much about it until I got back to base and told one of the captains about it. His eyes lit up and he said thats about as fast as that boat will go and probably as fast as its ever been. Call me what you will but I'm a speed freak and love my Hobie 16. I guess I'm just wondering if when I get my cruising cat I'm going to be stuck under 10 knots all the time.

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Old 03-09-2006, 19:07   #2
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Speed, Comfort, Price --

Pick any two.

When you look at things like the ARC results, you see that overall, the cruising cats do pretty darn well, even against racing monohulls. Even then, though, daily runs of 200+ are rare. Runs of 170 to 180, though, aren't unusual.

The thing is, esk, after having spent a week with you on Ninja, I am sure that if you got 10, you'd lust for 12. If you got 12, you'd go nuts for 14, and so on and so on. Hey, as long as nobody's hurt and you're not hitting any boats, go for it. (For the interested reader, here's a shot of one of esk's 'victims'. Ninja was toodling along at 8, and touched 9. Both cruising boats of similar length, both on a beam reach. Ninja dealt with her, quite handily, well before going through the gap. Enjoy, esk!)

Seriously, though, you might want to check out the Fusion cats. You can buy them as kits -- they will ship in a container. You're a pretty handy guy. The Fusion folks will sell them, complete for cruising for about $400K. Build it yourself and you could probably shave off quite a bit of that, keep it light, and tweak for speed.

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Intentional Drifter

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Old 03-09-2006, 23:59   #3
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The designer Dick Newick said it years ago. You can have two, any two of the three, high performance, low cost, and large accommodations. You cannot have all three together.
esk, have you given any thought to a trimaran instead. They will generally
outperform a cat on any point of sail even more so in light air. You will have to give up some of the palatial accommadations. They are not as common as the cats. Check out the F-36 by Ian Farrier, or designs by Tony Grainger in Australia. Here in the U.S. check out designs by Chris White(cats and tris) or John Marple's Fast Cruising trimaran models. My 25 year old plywood Searunner will do 9-12 all day long in a nice breeze. They also don't have the "driving a bus feel". A tri is more similar to a monohull in the way it handles than a cat.
If you really want a cat you may have to look beyond the Mantas, Lagoons, FPs, and all the other charter derivatives. With twin keels, 3 or 4 double bunks, and two or three heads these boats sacrifice performance for comfort. That said they will still perform as well if not better than a similar size mono.
One last thought on speed. I have had the old girl up to 14-15 knots many times but to keep it up hour after hour or at night is not always realistic or desirable when loaded for cruising. It is nice to have the ability to crank it up and make that quick dash between islands or get into port before the storm hits. Even though your boat may be capable of 15 knots, on longer passages your average will be lower.
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Old 04-09-2006, 00:46   #4
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24 kts in about 25-30 true on a tennant tri, 40" wild thing.... miserable wet and cold and left with bruises... the cats were doing about 12-15 kts that day and in comfort.. My old steel ketch would have been making 7 kts. Newick was correct.
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Old 04-09-2006, 04:56   #5
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Give Dazcat ( a call and they will design and build you a cat that satisfies your particular pefered ratio of 'the three'.

In my opinion, you cant have thrills without the potential for spills, so stick with Hobie/Dart for thrills and cruising cat for getting from A to B
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Old 04-09-2006, 05:07   #6

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On my website there is a link to Pat at Multihull Dynamics who has a multihull database with just about every multihull made, complete with hull speeds and every other performance characteristic you can think of for each boat. It's fun to look through them, but whoever said that a large cruising Cat was performance oriented?

Rick in Florida
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Old 04-09-2006, 05:23   #7
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the schionnings hit 15-20 easily if your happy to push them, bit scary though
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Old 04-09-2006, 06:50   #8
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You may want one these:

(claimed 24 knots cruser/racer)

Incidenltly, they have a good report of an around Britain race on cats (and monos) on the same site
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Old 04-09-2006, 07:30   #9
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cat speed

Keep in mind that the charter cats all have two fixed props that really put a damper on performance. The Moorings/ Leopard 38 has two 40 HP diesels swinging large 3 blade props - I am certain a couple folding props would add a knot or two to the speed.

On my PDQ32 I easily see 10 knots with 15 knots of wind. Between 15 and 20 knots of wind she will do 12 knots or better. Beyond 12 knots it is reefing time.

You do not feel the speed on a cruising cat in the same way as you do on a mono. You have to learn to resist the urge to fire up an engine when speeds drop below 6 knots.
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Old 04-09-2006, 09:57   #10
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Typically 8to 9 knots in wind up to 20knots with "standard"-sail.
10knots with 105sqm Parasailor 2 in 20kn Wind. shows a small WMV Movie (3MB) of 8,5kn at the eastcoast of the UK. (little waves) shows 8,5kn at the Ijsselmeer in 17kn Wind also film backwards, out of the escape-window and the bow (6MB) WMV Format (sea is flat)

I do not count surfing down a wave as normal speed

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Old 04-09-2006, 11:18   #11
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Voyage 380 cruising

Makai is a Voyage 380. We spent 3 years cruising the Caribe. In otherwords we were loaded for our life. Our best half day was 11 knots average in 18-24 knots of wind. The delivery captain from Durban SA had a half day at 14 knots.

11 Knots over the ground didn't feel fast but when you looked behind and saw the water I realized we were moving very fast through the water without the tiring healing. I saw speed was good and Cats were great!

If you are going to live aboard and cruise be prepared to lose a lot of the top speed. But even loaded for crusiing (without overloading) we still blow away most of the cruising monos that are much larger than us.

We have a freind who cruises a Bayfield 36--top speed is 4.5 knots. Anthing less than a brisk wind they average 3 knots.......make your choice. It is all a compromise.
Captain Bil formerly of sv Makai -- KI4TMM
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Old 04-09-2006, 15:02   #12
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Our 1994 Prout Manta 38 is fairly heavy and very conservatively rigged. Loaded with cruising supplies, she is seldom faster than a mono of length and sometimes not that fast.

Last spring, returning from the Bahamas, we were coming up the Cape Fear. Current was with us and wind was ripping. I got a little over 10 kts. SOG.

Sailing on the Nuese River running light with 20+ kts of wind we touched 12 for a while. That’s the best ever.

I’m afraid that if I am making something over 4 kts. In the right direction, I consider it pretty good. Sailing 6 kts. is excellent, and more is out of sight. Hull speed is about 8 kts. and is rarely seen.

She took my address and my name
Put my credit to shame
Sunspot Baby, sure had a real good time
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Old 04-09-2006, 19:23   #13
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I was on a 33' Seawind 1000 in San Francisco Bay, the wind was peaking at 27 knotts, the boat was peaking at 13 knots, and I did not think the main sail had that good of a shape.
The seawind has two common outboard motors that are mounted in board and are raised out of the water in a compartment when not used.
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Old 04-09-2006, 20:33   #14
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I've had my 1963 27' CSK up to 17 knots and she was heavily loaded. In the past we had our 1969 38' CSK up to 28 knots once. We get a nice blast of wind in the afternoons that come down Port Jefferson Harbor and when on the outside of the barrier beach, the water is smooth, not even a chop, with the wind barreling down....sure gives a great ride! Both those speeds were clocked in this area.
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Old 05-09-2006, 10:15   #15
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Great stuff guys, since we are talking about speed I guess I should of mention that I've had my Hobie 16 going about 28-30 knots offshore up here in Newport, OR with a steady fall breeze 45k.

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