HOW FAST ???

[colemj]

I just saw this thread. I have had a Manta 40 for three years now. On a close/beam reach, it drives very easily up to 8-9 knots in 15-17 knot wind speed and pushes to 10 above that (but should be reefed). Bringing it up to CT from FL, we experienced 5 consecutive 200+nm days, but we also had the gulf stream in our favor most of the way. I view the boat as being similar in speed potential to modern production racer/cruiser style monohulls. It does not perform at the top of the modern production racing monohull spectrum. However, I am also comparing my fully loaded and heavily equipped boat against the boats out racing each weekend.

It doesn't provide the feel of a monohull, which can either be good or bad depending on your preference. Having owned monohulls and a catamaran, I miss the feel of a mono when I am out on a perfect sailing day for a couple of hours. However, sailing for 8-10 hours with a 20kt wind ahead of the beam in not so ideal weather, the catamaran is the way to travel. We reach our destinations so much more relaxed and better fed on the catamaran. We also more readily stretch our passages to further destinations or leave one anchorage for another during snotty (not dangerous) weather instead of just hunkering down for another day. Until I started sailing the catamaran, I didn't realize just how much heeling and spray contributed to making me tired, or influenced my decisions on where/when to go. Sailing downwind in swells, the catamaran simply does not roll. It's like sailing a dock in these conditions. I've never been on a monohull that handled these conditions well, although some are way better than others.

So all in all, I don't mind only going as fast as a good monohull while driving my "bus" in comfort.

Esk: what catamaran are you getting? There are definitely higher-performance catamarans, but none of them (in cruising mode) are going to provide you the speed-junkie thrill of a Hobie. In fact, due to the ease and stability in which you will experience the speed on a larger catamaran, you won't feel any thrill at all other than the intellectual thrill of watching a higher number on a knotmeter.

Mark

[eskfreedom]

We had decided on a Manta 42 but after spending a week on one my wife who's 6'1" couldn't fit in the bed ,hated the top loading fridge/freezer , and didn't like the head room. I loved her except for her load capacity and performance disability's. We are now considering a Lagoon 41 or an older Catana 42. To be honest with ya guys I don't know what kind of boat to get. But I do know that I'm not spending $1 over 280k on one.

[cat man do]

My last cat was a Simpson "Ground Effect " that we massaged out to 10m instead of 9.3m. Great boat that we built ourselves and cruised Queensland coast on for 5 years. This was a performance cat,but we still had a queen size berth in sitting headroom cabin on bridgedeck,carried an 8ft flat bottomed dinghy, had 6ft4in headroom in hulls and in full cruising trim won bottles of rum in wednesday and friday night races up and down coast. We sailed her to New Caledonia and spent a month there before selling to a new owner who could never love her like I could. [still breaks my heart after 4 years] but we had to finance her big sister [50ft cat,same designer, similar hullshape].
Anyway, wildest and fastest ride on her was coming through the Wide Bay Bar [notorious in Aus] in about 25/30 knots of wind. Had the anchor rattling in the wave in front and the wave behind curling and breaking, coast guard recon we had 5m seas that day. Boat handled it just fine, tracked straight , helm feather light. Had eyes like dinnerplates on the way in so never looked at log, but GPS had 25.9 knots as max speed.
Yeehaa
Dave

[pieter97]

http://www.gunboat.info/home.html

Go to 'Video' and watch "Safari", a Gunboat 62' overtake a monohull. The Gunboat is reported to be doing close to 30knots!

[schoonerdog]

You might not like the lagoon if performance is key. They have good layouts, wonderful cabins down below and good ability to carry load, but that ability to carry load is due to her relatively wide hulls, which will slow her down.

Our cat does about 9 knots in 15 knots of wind, which is good for a relatively inexpensive catamaran (st francis 44). But standing headroom down in the hulls, especially aft, you statuesque wife might not like! I'm 5'11" and just touch in the aft cabins. Forward it's not that big of a deal.

Were I in the market again I would really look at the Suttleworth Advantage 44 for a bargain for speed machine (www.yachtworld.com has one for 225k). Also consider the slipstream 44 which is on the market a while and the owner has come down a lot in price (195k), it has retractable outboard which if you get a reliable yamaha with another one for your dingy, can be a very good combination. You could get that and have more than enough in your cruising kitty left over to trick it out to be exactly what you want. Write me if you want more info on what it's like to cruise with retractible outboards, I've done it for 6 years and a couple thousand blue water miles.

[fhrussell]

Originally Posted by schoonerdog

Also consider the slipstream 44 which is on the market a while and the owner has come down a lot in price (195k), it has retractable outboard which if you get a reliable yamaha with another one for your dingy, can be a very good combination. You could get that and have more than enough in your cruising kitty left over to trick it out to be exactly what you want. Write me if you want more info on what it's like to cruise with retractible outboards, I've done it for 6 years and a couple thousand blue water miles.

Hey, I helped build the Slipstream 44! She performed very well... Anyone who wants info can contact me as well.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by pieter97

http://www.gunboat.info/home.html

Go to 'Video' and watch "Safari", a Gunboat 62' overtake a monohull. The Gunboat is reported to be doing close to 30knots!

Good movie!

[fastcat435]

Getting 10 knots out of 12 to 14 knots of wind speed is possible or 19 knots speed with 25 knots of wind speed , we do it often without problems and Cape Town to Miami with 10.9 knots average ?
I have seen a top of 25.9 , unfortunately no camera ready
It is possible to combine speed space safety and comfort in a cat
Greetings
Fastcat435

[rob denney]

G'day,

Performance cruiser is a boat that can sail at windspeed up to say 20 knots.
Family performance cruiser is doing this without scaring the wife or kids.
Safe family performance cruiser is one where at these speeds, if a strong gust hits, the crew does not have to do anything to prevent it getting scary.
Comfortable safe family performance cruiser does it without anyone getting wet or seasick
Strange looking comfortable safe family performance cruiser does all the above in a boat with one hull longer than the other!

Check out the video at

YouTube - Visionarry Sailing

regards,

Rob

[fastcat435]

[quote=rob denney;136492]G'day,

Performance cruiser is a boat that can sail at windspeed up to say 20 knots.
Family performance cruiser is doing this without scaring the wife or kids.
Safe family performance cruiser is one where at these speeds, if a strong gust hits, the crew does not have to do anything to prevent it getting scary.
Comfortable safe family performance cruiser does it without anyone getting wet or seasick
Strange looking comfortable safe family performance cruiser does all the above in a boat with one hull longer than the other!

Check out the video at

YouTube - Visionarry Sailing

Last year i did a test sail with 2 family,s on board 2 small kids where playing a board game inside the saloon on the table , the wind peeked at 27/28 knots we sailed along at 18 to 21 knots the waves where small since the wind was coming from the land, no fright in any way and from harbor to harbor 21 nm distance 1 hour 10 minutes
One couple bought the boat at that moment.
It is all a matter of weight versus sail area
Greetings

[fastcat435]

Yes I have looked at the Visionary , we have one in the Netherlands good concept and fast but very limited space on board so not very good for long distance cruising

Greetings

[rob denney]

Originally Posted by fastcat435

Yes I have looked at the Visionary , we have one in the Netherlands good concept and fast but very limited space on board so not very good for long distance cruising

Greetings

G'day,

Glad you like the boat. A couple of points:

The Visionarry in Holland is the sports version. It was designed for sight impaired people to safely feel the thrill of fast sailing. The one in the video is the cruising version, which has a lot more space, is 50% heavier, but still travels at windspeed very easily.

The Dutch Visionarry has a huge amount of space, but in the interests of performance we chose not to use it. There is room for 2 more cabins and storage space for plenty of toys in the lee hull . If performance is your aim, and you don't do more than weekending with your family (2 king size double berths and a single) then filling up every available bit of space with bunks that won't be used is both heavy and expensive.

While I agree that weight and sail area are important for speed, we should not overlook low windage, waterline length, low water drag (2 waterfoils instead of 4), efficient hull shapes and an easily handled rig which automatically depowers in gusts. Harryproas have all these advantages (and more), over conventional catamarans.

Regards,
Rob

[fastcat435]

The concept is nice but I will stick to the faster than windspeed cats we produce because of heaps of space on board

Thanks for the info

Greetings
Gideon

[rob denney]

Originally Posted by fastcat435

The concept is nice but I will stick to the faster than windspeed cats we produce because of heaps of space on board

Thanks for the info

Greetings
Gideon

G'day,
My pleasure.
Heaps of space, perhaps, but when you were wrote about the speed yesterday, you said "Getting 10 knots out of 12 to 14 knots of wind speed is possible or 19 knots speed with 25 knots of wind speed". This is 75% of wind speed yet today you claim "faster than windspeed".

Gideon, you are doing good things with your boats, but you need to keep your enthusiasm under control or readers will start to wonder how much is correct, and how much is hype.

regards,

rob

[fastcat435]

Originally Posted by rob denney

G'day,
My pleasure.
Heaps of space, perhaps, but when you were wrote about the speed yesterday, you said "Getting 10 knots out of 12 to 14 knots of wind speed is possible or 19 knots speed with 25 knots of wind speed". This is 75% of wind speed yet today you claim "faster than windspeed".

Gideon, you are doing good things with your boats, but you need to keep your enthusiasm under control or readers will start to wonder how much is correct, and how much is hype.

regards,

rob

Hallo Rob
In our new green Motion concept we do wind speed or better while with the previous cats we do slightly less than windspeed so depending on the model it is better or almost windspeed.
on my last trip with a 435 with only 10 knots of wind at 100 degrees 9 knots. This is done with Pre Green Motion
The system might work well for A HarryProa as well to gain a bit more speed since nothing is hanging in the water anymore and the possibility to generate electricity.
Let me know if you are interested , do you power your Proa with one or 2 motors ?

Greetings