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Old 12-10-2017, 21:15   #46
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Re: How do you judge if a beach is too "wavy" or if it will turn too unstable later?

Good questions and thread following... depends on the boat design & build - skegs, aluminium etc. I'd agree those not tried would say no - but there will be occasions when evidence of others says yes. Prudence would say pre-survey beach, slope - protection - wave and wind forecast in areas you are not familiar with. I have been caught on beaches with a rising tide and southerly buster in NSW - 40kts and fierce fetch. NB: Increasing environmental standards may push cats to beach for maintenance - recently a colleague here in NSW was fined A$4000 by EPA/Government for changing a skin fitting on a beach.
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Old 12-10-2017, 23:40   #47
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Re: How do you judge if a beach is too "wavy" or if it will turn too unstable later?

Beaching cats is not a standard practice according to my observations. In fact, the only place I recall that it occurred regularly was near Lahina on Maui, Hawaii. At one point, years ago, we had a condo at Whalers Village (hotel area) and would watch the six pack cats pick up and drop off passengers on the sand beach. I would not even use the terms board or disembark in connection with the process. They did not stay long, and everything seemed very wiki wiki.
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Old 13-10-2017, 06:26   #48
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Re: How do you judge if a beach is too "wavy" or if it will turn too unstable later?

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Beaching cats is not a standard practice according to my observations. In fact, the only place I recall that it occurred regularly was near Lahina on Maui, Hawaii. At one point, years ago, we had a condo at Whalers Village (hotel area) and would watch the six pack cats pick up and drop off passengers on the sand beach. I would not even use the terms board or disembark in connection with the process. They did not stay long, and everything seemed very wiki wiki.
Yes, beaching a full sized cruising cat is a very different thing than running a beach cat up in the sand.

I think due to advertising, many have the impression this is routinely done with larger cats...its not (relative to the # of larger cats in operation). Should only be done with very careful planning and consideration.

The specific boat is important too. Most cats will sit on their keels, but not all are designed for this.
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Old 13-10-2017, 06:56   #49
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Re: How do you judge if a beach is too "wavy" or if it will turn too unstable later?

The real challenge is judging wave height slope in a dingy. I personally ha a dingy flip end for end onto a beach that looked calm. I am spooked and very cautious about landing now. ANY hints as to condition of the serf is important.
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Old 13-10-2017, 07:12   #50
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Re: How do you judge if a beach is too "wavy" or if it will turn too unstable later?

3 pro tips:

- as mentioned above recon before landing
- use magic seaweed and wind forecast awaiting your right weather day
- final approach to 2-3 feet of water. Go neutral. Step in and using the bow line walk the boat in by hand like a large horse.

Get an experienced local, follow those steps above you'll be ok unless there is something non hydrodynamic hanging below or behind your amas. Don't be surprised by the occasional industry naysayer.
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Old 13-10-2017, 08:17   #51
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Re: How do you judge if a beach is too "wavy" or if it will turn too unstable later?

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3 pro tips:

- as mentioned above recon before landing
- use magic seaweed and wind forecast awaiting your right weather day
- final approach to 2-3 feet of water. Go neutral. Step in and using the bow line walk the boat in by hand like a large horse.

Get an experienced local, follow those steps above you'll be ok unless there is something non hydrodynamic hanging below or behind your amas. Don't be surprised by the occasional industry naysayer.
you mean you don't wait for a big wave and gunn the throttles........
this is how we do it in africa

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Old 13-10-2017, 08:26   #52
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Re: How do you judge if a beach is too "wavy" or if it will turn too unstable later?

The second (?) clip in that series (the one with the skiff) is the same way its often done in Belize. (I used to have skiff just like that one). At first I thought it was shot in Belize, but someone in the background said "Dominican...".

Ive run up beaches fast on a beach cat...would like to watch someone try that in a full sized cruising cat! At full speed under sail. 😆
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Old 13-10-2017, 09:03   #53
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Re: How do you judge if a beach is too "wavy" or if it will turn too unstable later?

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you mean you don't wait for a big wave and gunn the throttles........
this is how we do it in africa

Hit it !!
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Old 13-10-2017, 10:10   #54
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Re: How do you judge if a beach is too "wavy" or if it will turn too unstable later?

Geez...nobody care about their gelcoat?

I will be one of the few who advertise my boat as "Never been beached"
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Old 13-10-2017, 11:07   #55
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Re: How do you judge if a beach is too "wavy" or if it will turn too unstable later?

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Geez...nobody care about their gelcoat?

I will be one of the few who advertise my boat as "Never been beached"
Gelcoat! We don't need no stinkin Gelcoat! Ha Ha Ha!
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Old 13-10-2017, 11:35   #56
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Re: How do you judge if a beach is too "wavy" or if it will turn too unstable later?

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Geez...nobody care about their gelcoat?

I will be one of the few who advertise my boat as "Never been beached"
On the beach no yard dude has a pressure washer set to "full peel mode". Your hull can suffer mightlily in a yard as well - especially in a yard specializing in hull repairs.

Came in for a cleaning did you...don't worry we'll just take a little off...
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Old 13-10-2017, 15:07   #57
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Re: How do you judge if a beach is too "wavy" or if it will turn too unstable later?

Interesting thread for me... I've never understood the allure of anchoring in very shallow water close to the beach, let alone putting the boat on the beach. Noise, bugs, unwanted visitors, potential damage, all these seem to be realistic worries for a cruising sailor, and the advantages are not obvious to me.

Beaching for maintenance is a different matter, and that ability is useful for sure, but in some (many??) places it is not allowed these days.

So, I am finding the posts here worth reading. FWIW the east coast of Oz is catamaran paradise, and there are a hell of a lot of cats sailing here. But I seldom see them beached, so I wonder if it really is a common practice? 44's photos (nice photss, too!) show one example, but where are all the rest?

Jim
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Old 13-10-2017, 15:56   #58
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Re: How do you judge if a beach is too "wavy" or if it will turn too unstable later?

A couple of reasons Jim

Middle Percy - we go into the lagoon and dry out on the sand every low tide. We often stay a week. You sleep really well when tied to a mangrove tree. The poor monos roll out front and usually don't stay long in tradewind conditions.

Hill Inlet - THE iconic Whitsunday shot is of this tidal place. We go in there and can either try and find a hole or beach every low tide. Again we often stay a week.

Leekes Creek - Great Keppel - Keppel is nice but can be a pain when you get a southerly forecast and it is blowing hard from the north. So we go into Leekes Creek and when the tide is out we sit on the sand. Get a nice sleep whilst our friends have to do the 2am shuffle. Can be bitey so get the screens ready.

South Zoe creek - we were in North Zoe but a mate had his Wharram on the sand flat off the campsite in one of the loveliest parts of the coast. Dried out every tide.

Whatumba and Coongul Creek Fraser Island - whilst the deep boats have to run back to protection in a northerly we can creep into the creeks and dry out again at low tide. Tie onto a tree and get to know the locals. Any good breeze keeps the bities down.

Beaching a boat to avoid anchoring is pretty dumb. Anchoring takes less than a minute and beaching takes time. You never want to be in waves and you never ever want to be side on to waves on the beach. That is why the spots we beach are protected.

Don't worry about your gelcoat. It will be under a few layers of antifoul and hopefully your boat will have a barrier coat of epoxy primer and clear epoxy so there is no cause for concern.

That being said I would also say that my beached boat is probably a BETTER cared for boat than if I didn't beach it. I know my boat intimately under the water and I bet when 44C polished his hull he also gave a long look over his below waterline sections, checking for cracks, maybe changing the leg oil, ensuring the through hulls still looked good, checking for weeping on the rudders. Kids love running around in the safe shallow water and as we cruised with kids, beaching our boat and playing around were highlights for us. The sterns on our cat are about 50cm above the sand when beached. A bucket tied on and it is family happy days.

I met a guy who had a cat that he reckoned he couldn't beach. What a waste. He couldn't stay at Percy lagoon, go into North Zoe, spend a week in Hill inlet watching the wonderful wildlife. He probably had fun but it would have killed me to be on a boat that couldn't easily take the ground. His boat was a big Leopard and it is interesting that I haven't see many condo cats drying out. Big heavy boats with large topsides could be a real pain because you do tend to muscle your boat around when drying out and tying off lines to trees etc - so you often can't use motors. I haven't thought of it before but most of the cats I see dried out tend to be Aussie designed and owner built. I have seen a Seawind though.

And you don't need miniheels to beach. I have 100mm deep minikeels because a lot of slips in NSW have rough slipway cars but a nice semi-hard antifoul and kick up rudders and you have a beaching cat. This is one major reason I didn't consider diesels but saildrives may force a beaching afficionado to go minikeels. So no diesels for me - I like boards.

So go and beach, it is a great part of your cruising repetoire. Just don't do it on an exposed section or to save yourself putting the dinghy in.

cheers

Phil
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Old 13-10-2017, 16:23   #59
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Re: How do you judge if a beach is too "wavy" or if it will turn too unstable later?

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Originally Posted by catsketcher View Post
A couple of reasons Jim

Middle Percy - we go into the lagoon and dry out on the sand every low tide. We often stay a week. You sleep really well when tied to a mangrove tree. The poor monos roll out front and usually don't stay long in tradewind conditions.

Hill Inlet - THE iconic Whitsunday shot is of this tidal place. We go in there and can either try and find a hole or beach every low tide. Again we often stay a week.

Leekes Creek - Great Keppel - Keppel is nice but can be a pain when you get a southerly forecast and it is blowing hard from the north. So we go into Leekes Creek and when the tide is out we sit on the sand. Get a nice sleep whilst our friends have to do the 2am shuffle. Can be bitey so get the screens ready.

South Zoe creek - we were in North Zoe but a mate had his Wharram on the sand flat off the campsite in one of the loveliest parts of the coast. Dried out every tide.

Whatumba and Coongul Creek Fraser Island - whilst the deep boats have to run back to protection in a northerly we can creep into the creeks and dry out again at low tide. Tie onto a tree and get to know the locals. Any good breeze keeps the bities down.

Beaching a boat to avoid anchoring is pretty dumb. Anchoring takes less than a minute and beaching takes time. You never want to be in waves and you never ever want to be side on to waves on the beach. That is why the spots we beach are protected.

Don't worry about your gelcoat. It will be under a few layers of antifoul and hopefully your boat will have a barrier coat of epoxy primer and clear epoxy so there is no cause for concern.

That being said I would also say that my beached boat is probably a BETTER cared for boat than if I didn't beach it. I know my boat intimately under the water and I bet when 44C polished his hull he also gave a long look over his below waterline sections, checking for cracks, maybe changing the leg oil, ensuring the through hulls still looked good, checking for weeping on the rudders. Kids love running around in the safe shallow water and as we cruised with kids, beaching our boat and playing around were highlights for us. The sterns on our cat are about 50cm above the sand when beached. A bucket tied on and it is family happy days.

I met a guy who had a cat that he reckoned he couldn't beach. What a waste. He couldn't stay at Percy, go into North Zoe, spend a week in Hill inlet watching the wonderful wildlife. He probably had fun but it would have killed me to be on a boat that couldn't easily take the ground.

And you don't need miniheels to beach. I have 100mm deep minikeels because a lot of slips in NSW have rough slipway cars but a nice semi-hard antifoul and kick up rudders and you have a beaching cat. This is one major reason I didn't consider diesels but saildrives may force a beaching afficionado to go minikeels. So no diesels for me - I like boards.

So go and beach, it is a great part of your cruising repetoire. Just don't do it on an exposed section or to save yourself putting the dinghy in.

cheers

Phil
Good post, Phill! And obviously this scheme works well for you, so well done.

Yet we've been to most of the places you mention, and managed at anchor. Yep, when on the hard you surely had less motion than we did, but i bet you had a lot more mozzies and sand flies (something that Ann really can't get used to, and that I don't care for much either!).

And interesting about Zoe (a really neat place, too!). When we were there we were in company with four cats. None of them went into the lagoon, but there was a smaller mono anchored in it... had been there for days!

And I can see the allure of Hill inlet... possibly the best place I've seen for doing what you describe. We explored it by dinghy and on foot...

Ann and I are long past cruising with kids, so had not considered that aspect of shallow anchorage. I can see the advantages for your situation, but I suspect that we would do that by day and then move out to deeper water for overnight anchorage... just my prejudices. Being near to shore has some genuine drawbacks if the wx goes bad, as I'm sure you know. At least one CF poster lost his cat due to such an issue.

So, the different styles of cruising will continue to bring different schemes for anchoring. No right or wrong in general, but possibly worth discussing the downsides of each method, as has been going on in this thread. I'm a little uncomfortable with blanket assurances to the OP (whose question gave the impression of little experience) that it would be OK to beach his boat. He lacks your deep level of knowledge about what makes a specific beach a likely candidate for beaching and this could lead to tears. Hopefully the advice offered by you and other experienced folks will help him with decisions in the future, should he end up owning a cat and lurking about the shallows!

Jim
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Old 13-10-2017, 16:39   #60
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Re: How do you judge if a beach is too "wavy" or if it will turn too unstable later?

Quote "But I seldom see them beached, so I wonder if it really is a common practice? 44's photos (nice photss, too!) show one example, but where are all the rest?"


Yesterday morning around 0930.




Quote: "I've never understood the allure of anchoring in very shallow water close to the beach"

We are currently approx 45 meters off the beachin flat water with the wind at approx 10 - 15 knots coming directly off the beach, in a line of 7 cats.Back behind us in mono land (deeper water) the wind is at least 5 knots stronger, the wind waves higher and make for interesting dinghy boarding at times. Not to mention the noise of fans on the back of a lot of them. (although we do have one cat behind us with a particularly noisy wind generator I keep thinking an outboard is coming up behind us.
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