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Old 18-04-2015, 15:57   #46
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Re: Gunboats Full Foiling G4 Cruiser/Racer

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Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
So now we can settle the cruising discussion, is not designed for cruising....is not even a cruiser racer in my mind, is a wonderfull toy for inshore sailing....
Can we? Personally I don't think there's enough information about the capsize yet.
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Old 18-04-2015, 16:36   #47
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Re: Gunboats Full Foiling G4 Cruiser/Racer

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So now we can settle the cruising discussion, is not designed for cruising....is not even a cruiser racer in my mind, is a wonderfull toy for inshore sailing....
That capsize doesn't answer any discussions at all, and has absolutely nothing to do with inshore or ocean sailing.
Water conditions today were less than seen on many big lakes. The boat was racing - which means they were sailing on the edge. And as sometimes happens, one goes over the edge. Nothing more and nothing less.
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Old 18-04-2015, 16:42   #48
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Re: Gunboats Full Foiling G4 Cruiser/Racer

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Can we? Personally I don't think there's enough information about the capsize yet.

Hum.. sunny day, seas 2 feet or less judging by the photo, pro crew and the boat capsized anyway.

It's a cool boat, but I suspect it's not ready for the typical cruiser, or more likely the typical cruiser is not ready for it. Luckily everyone is safe and the boat is intact, which does show a high build quality.
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Old 18-04-2015, 16:49   #49
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Re: Gunboats Full Foiling G4 Cruiser/Racer

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Hum.. sunny day, seas 2 feet or less judging by the photo, pro crew and the boat capsized anyway.

It's a cool boat, but I suspect it's not ready for the typical cruiser, or more likely the typical cruiser is not ready for it. Luckily everyone is safe and the boat is intact, which does show a high build quality.
We don't know what they were doing or why so my point still stands.
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Old 18-04-2015, 22:42   #50
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Re: Gunboats Full Foiling G4 Cruiser/Racer

I said it before and I will say it again, it is not a cruising boat, it is a marketing tool, unfortunately now, not so much.
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Old 19-04-2015, 07:18   #51
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Re: Gunboats Full Foiling G4 Cruiser/Racer

The nice thing about cats is they have not one, but two stable states.

This one seems apt to assume State 2 rather more quickly than non-foiling types.

Personally, I prefer planing monohull sport boats for white-knuckled joy rides.

Wonder how they got the thing righted? l know....blow all the sheets, stand on one hull
And haul on a halyard...right?
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Old 19-04-2015, 07:39   #52
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Re: Gunboats Full Foiling G4 Cruiser/Racer

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We don't know what they were doing or why so my point still stands.
Umm - we do know what they were doing. They were sailing in "Les Voiles de St. Barths" Regatta. They were racing in a very competitive Regatta and, as one is wont to do in races, they were trying to get the most out of the boat. Since the G4 is a racer, it will allow the crew to do things that a cruising boat will not allow; and in this case they made a mistake and the result was a capsize.
Although I'm not a catamaran fan, this discussion about the merits or seaworthiness of the boat is misplaced. If a Formula I car crashes during a race people don't discuss about bad car design but accept the fact that the driver made a mistake. The G4 might be more in the Indy 500 class, but the principle remains the same.
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Old 19-04-2015, 07:56   #53
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Re: Gunboats Full Foiling G4 Cruiser/Racer

Well, Formula I is a pretty mature class of vehicle.

Don't kid yourself. Foiling is a game changer.

A better analogy is someone showing up with a 3-wheeler Formula I, pushing it hard, and crashing it..would anyone be surprised? or attribute the wreck to mere pilot error?

Foiling is way over the top on complexity...resulting in way over the top speed. It will never be mainstream, but...that's okay.
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Old 19-04-2015, 09:54   #54
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Re: Gunboats Full Foiling G4 Cruiser/Racer

https://vimeo.com/125378004
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Old 19-04-2015, 10:18   #55
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Re: Gunboats Full Foiling G4 Cruiser/Racer

An expensive toy. Wouldn't want to do that in the PNW 50 miles from the nearest boat...
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Old 19-04-2015, 10:46   #56
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Re: Gunboats Full Foiling G4 Cruiser/Racer

Trying to do damage control and sell this as "cool" is not appropriate. Flipping an 800k vessel is not cool. No one was wearing life jackets, someone could have easily died here if knocked unconscious or from hypothermia in colder water. If they were in shallower water the rig would have been broken off or driven through the nacelle. They were lucky this time but like the AC foilers they should be required to wear life jackets and probably helmets. Foiling is a game changer for racing not cruising.
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Old 19-04-2015, 10:55   #57
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Re: Gunboats Full Foiling G4 Cruiser/Racer

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Trying to do damage control and sell this as "cool" is not appropriate. Flipping an 800k vessel is not cool. No one was wearing life jackets, someone could have easily died here if knocked unconscious or from hypothermia in colder water. If they were in shallower water the rig would have been broken off or driven through the nacelle. They were lucky this time but like the AC foilers they should be required to wear life jackets and probably helmets. Foiling is a game changer for racing not cruising.

Push your nanny state on your own family, not on those who enjoy pushing the envelope.


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Old 19-04-2015, 11:24   #58
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Re: Gunboats Full Foiling G4 Cruiser/Racer

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Push your nanny state on your own family, not on those who enjoy pushing the envelope.


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This is not nanny state, it is common sense and taking responsibility for your marketing as a manufacturer. Have you read the G4 brochure? If not I suggest you do. Gunboat will have a hard time recovering from this and the 55 incident. You can push the envelope and self destruct very easily in this business.
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Old 19-04-2015, 13:02   #59
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Re: Gunboats Full Foiling G4 Cruiser/Racer

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This is not nanny state, it is common sense and taking responsibility for your marketing as a manufacturer. Have you read the G4 brochure? If not I suggest you do. Gunboat will have a hard time recovering from this and the 55 incident. You can push the envelope and self destruct very easily in this business.
So you know what they were doing when it went over? This boat was built as a prototype. The foils have far more angle adjustment than is expected on the production boat so they can see what happens when the AOA is shifted to the extremes. The same is true of the fin on the rudders.

All foiling is a compromise between speed, lift, and stability. This specific platform was designed to test out different compromises. Right now at least no one outside Gunboat has any idea what the settings were when the boat went over, so at this point all we have is pure speculation about how the production boat will be set up. In fact it is very likely that a production boat will have different settings when it is set up for cruising versus racing, versus fast passage making.

As a minimum it has been released that it is possible to rake the board so that it actually created negative lift. Ie pulling the boat back into the water.

Right now what we know is that there are some possible combinations that seem unsafe. But that has nothing to do with if all possible settings are equally unsafe. Until Gunboat releases statements about what actually happened we won't know.
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Old 19-04-2015, 13:15   #60
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Re: Gunboats Full Foiling G4 Cruiser/Racer

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So you know what they were doing when it went over? This boat was built as a prototype. The foils have far more angle adjustment than is expected on the production boat so they can see what happens when the AOA is shifted to the extremes. The same is true of the fin on the rudders.

All foiling is a compromise between speed, lift, and stability. This specific platform was designed to test out different compromises. Right now at least no one outside Gunboat has any idea what the settings were when the boat went over, so at this point all we have is pure speculation about how the production boat will be set up. In fact it is very likely that a production boat will have different settings when it is set up for cruising versus racing, versus fast passage making.

As a minimum it has been released that it is possible to rake the board so that it actually created negative lift. Ie pulling the boat back into the water.

Right now what we know is that there are some possible combinations that seem unsafe. But that has nothing to do with if all possible settings are equally unsafe. Until Gunboat releases statements about what actually happened we won't know.
My problem as a fellow professional in the industry, is the hype in the marketing, this is no more a cruising boat than an F1 is a daily driver. It needs more than subtle rake adjustments, probably a sensor like the moths to automatically adjust the wing in seas. Even with that based on elapsed times it was not that fast in "regular catamaran" mode when off the foils. There is pushing the envelope and then there is delusion. This concept will never be plausible as a family cruiser and particularly at a price pushing 800k. When I first saw the concept and then finished design, I predicted in private that this would happen. If you look at the details this past week it took a lot of work by a crew of professionals perched on the aft windward quarter to sail this and keep it foiling in variable conditions. I would say GB was very lucky no one was seriously hurt.
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