Gratuity/Tipping

[contrail]

Originally Posted by Simonsays

With all due respect and gratitude for your input on how it is in the BVI,
the critique is not directed towards you as laborer, but towards the work ethics of a company that forces you to rely on tips instead of providing you with a fair wage and the customer with transparent costs.
I have no problems tipping for services that warrants a tip.
I have a problem tipping as a means of tax and social fee evasion, because that is what that basicly is, no matter how much anyone wants to talk it into a Roman custom.

so again, thank you for your detailed report on the status quo and please do not take the critique as a personal attack, which it certainly is not.

Actually, much of the tourist oriented third world, BVI included, collects most of its revenues from fees, duties, tourist entries and exits, hotel taxes, charter taxes, etc. etc. that are easier to monitor than income taxes, which are relatively small. So, perhaps we don't have the incentives to evade income taxes with which you are familiar in the first world ......which, I assume, is the reason for your generalized accusation, and it's certainly not the reason for tips. That said, I really am done, but I couldn't let that one slide by. Folks ought to try to wear the other guy's shoes before they leap to conclusions.

[monte]

So, one more question... A Brit, an Aussie, a Russian and a Yank go on a charter...
What's the average tip from each?
Who drink the most?
Who complains the most?
and who talks the most?

[belizesailor]

Oh...you forgot French!

A charter company I used to captain for had several unwritten policies just for Frenchies.

[monte]

Haha yeah I bet! Ok add the frogs to the list..
But then...most Frenchies are more likely to charter from Guadeloupe or Martinique where they can speak their own language, eat their baguettes, drink their own wine and tip as they would in metropole.
Edit again... And get cheap flights from Paris!

[rabbi]

Its just a different business culture.

In germany I expect every business to fully pay their employees. Would I tip the employee that changed my tires in the garage? Certainly not! I would not even meet him, I just meet the guy at the counter who does the paperwork. I expect the business to pay them.

Tips are generally not expected here (except a 5~10% for the waiter and maybe a roundup for the taxi driver). Average service in a restaurant results in maybe 5%, excellent service closer to 10%. Bad service means no tip.

Two decades or so ago the restaurant tip would have been more like 5% for very good service, and none otherwise.



I do know that its different in other countries and I respect that. It is of course part of my decision making process. If prices + tip is too much in my view, or simply not competitive, I just don't use the service.
And that does happen.

[Svanen]

Originally Posted by MrReedatsea

I recently finished three ASA courses (live-aboard) at a well known sailing school. The instructor did an amazing job but talked off and on about bad tippers all week. The other students and I decided to tip $200 each and I found out later that the last person to leave was harshly reprimanded for how poorly we all tipped. It really put a damper on the experience for him.

Incredible. If I had been in your shoes, there would have been (1) no tip and (2) a formal complaint to the owner of the sailing school.

So that others may avoid a similarly unpleasant experience, I invite you to name the school here.

Originally Posted by contrail

Having never been in the situation of being a freelance skipper who is assigned to a boat to do instruction, I can't knowledgeably comment on what the appropriate tip is, but if the instructor is good, I see no reason he or she should, or would, be making less than if he or she were simply conducting a charter which he or she could obviously be doing.

If an instructor could "obviously" make more money doing some other job, I would have to conclude that he or she is content with the lower pay and sticking with instructing because of non-monetary incentives. It is not the student's place to question that decision.

[Svanen]

Originally Posted by contrail

Guests from certain countries, who are not accustomed to tipping in that range, and who refuse to do so on principle, are not well thought of, simply because it really is part of the pay scale and they are refusing to do "in Rome as the Roman's do" which isn't fair, no matter how many times one criticizes the custom or the business model. Canadians and European guests, including Brits, are not used to tipping and generally tip at a very low level, despite having been briefed by the companies or the brokers.

Even Canadian and European crews are generally not very enthusiastic about having these guests because they will be working hard, around the clock, for what they know may average out to less than $100 per day.

So be careful when you go outside your own area. Ask how thing are priced and then follow that. It's not fair to impose your home-grown customs on a different area.

Funny how this only works one way, though! For many years Americans have unilaterally imposed their tipping habits throughout the world, regardless of local customs (as you correctly noted, U.S. customers are responsible for importing tipping into the BVI).

Most countries are accustomed to service industry employees being paid decent wages, and tips are modest or non-existent. Yet when Americans visit Euope/Australia/Canada/etc., they 'don't feel comfortable' not tipping, and so import their foreign ways to the detriment of local customers who either have to match them or see the standard of service fall.

'When in Rome' is fine in theory, but only if it's a two-way street.

[Svanen]

Originally Posted by contrail

Remember, an instructor back in the US may be teaching in order to build up his or her resume or time, or for the privileges of using the school's boats. That's different in the BVI, and the conditions are generally much more challenging.

Oh please. I don't know where else you have sailed, but the conditions in the BVI are anything but challenging.

Originally Posted by contrail

Remember, if the job was that lucrative or easy, lots more people would be doing it, including some of the commentators on this board!

There is no shortage of competent, experienced, enthusiastic instructors ... on the contrary. That is why the pay is less than lucrative.

[belizesailor]

[QUOTE=contrail;2040223]...

Having never been in the situation of being a freelance skipper who is assigned to a boat to do instruction, I can't knowledgeably comment on what the appropriate tip is, but if the instructor is good, I see no reason he or she should, or would, be making less than if he or she were simply conducting a charter which he or she could obviously be doing.

.../QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Svanen

...
If an instructor could "obviously" make more money doing some other job, I would have to conclude that he or she is content with the lower pay and sticking with instructing because of non-monetary incentives. It is not the student's place to question that decision.

Been a freelance captain/instructor for many years, but have tended to work with the same group of schools/companies. Practice re compensation for a combined captain/instructor varies a lot. From companies who want to pay below market just captain rates, under the assumption you will make it up in tip, to paying higher for this combined role. When I ran a school, I did the later. Being both captain and instructor is a lot of additional work, and a lot more revenue for the company, so that seems most appropriate to me.

Teaching sailing (...or SCUBA, or skiing, or ...) is mostly a lifestyle choice. If making money is the real objective then there are much more effective ways to do that. Most intructors I know had, or still have, a "real" carreer.

[scuba0_1]

Originally Posted by contrail

No. In the BVI, at least, and I suppose other places, as well, your expectation is to be tipped, and the value of your work includes that. A decent teacher is doing much more than the bare minimum you suppose, and is just as responsible for safety, round the clock as a regular crew. More so, in fact, since the students are doing most of the sailing instead of a professional crew. Your professor in college hardly deals with you personally, and sees you for an hour and then is gone. And he makes a ton for that hour!

An instructor does not teach every week of the year, by any means. But he or she needs to make a certain annual income to be available for the week YOU are coming. Remember, if the job was that lucrative or easy, lots more people would be doing it, including some of the commentators on this board!

Would you take responsibility for a boat worth maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars, and four to six people, and teach as well, for maybe $20 an hour? Would you want someone worth no more than that in charge of teaching you? And $20 an hour would be based on ten hours of work, not round the clock. Someone once said of charter crew, and it applies to instructors, as well, "if it were any harder, no one would do it, and if it were any easier, everyone would."

Remember, an instructor back in the US may be teaching in order to build up his or her resume or time, or for the privileges of using the school's boats. That's different in the BVI, and the conditions are generally much more challenging. A good captain/instructor is worth every penny of what we are talking about.

I understand what you're saying. I'd rather get My money up front instead of hoping to get it on the back end. Add it to the prices and advertise no tipping needed. You must get mad when they walk off with a hands shake.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Svanen]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Teaching sailing (...or SCUBA, or skiing, or ...) is mostly a lifestyle choice. If making money is the real objective then there are much more effective ways to do that. Most intructors I know had, or still have, a "real" career.

This.