Fusion 40 or Spirited 380?

[freetime]

Originally Posted by jaydh

joakim...sent you a pm regarding those pics, not sure if you saw it??
- Jay

Not yet.

I like the design, but who can build it little closer to me?

[jaydh]

Hi Joakim,

I'll pm you the designer/builder details. Never know what he may be up for. He's not too terribly far from you now. Amazing gent and very fast with a superb end result. We're not even that close with him, but we respect him so much don't mind passing our experience with him on to others.

best,
J

[spiritcat]

I have just joined the forum and was interested on the issues under discussion. I am building a Spirited 380 after looking at a number of different designs over the last few years, in fact I almost kicked off a Wilderness 11 a few years back, but ended up buying a second hand cat instead.
The 380 is not the cheapest design around to build at home, but it has almost everthing we were looking for in a performance cruising cat to travel around the Pacific. The extra costs relate to a much easier and less time consuming build process which suits our outcomes. A couple of comments on issues raised:

Floors and curved hulls - the 380 floor provides a backup (second skin) if the hull is breached. Most breaches of the hull take place below the waterline and I would prefer that the hull stays watertight rather than the ability to make a quick repair.
Featherlight - Most non structual internal furniture is built from featherlight with all exposed edges backfilled with an epoxy mix and then glassed, no water should enter the structure, and it is light.
Design Changes - Most of the internal furniture is pre cut, but there is the ability to personalise the final product to suit your own needs.
Length - as our cat will be predominatly sailed two up, size was important, the bigger the boat the bigger the rigging and sails and the harder they can be to handle, our preference was the 36 to 40 foot range based on our previous coastal and offshore experiance.

At the end of the day, its up to personal preference what each owner builder wants, I know Bob Oram and the Schionning family but felt that the 380 met our needs where as the others dis not to the same extent.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by spiritcat

Length - as our cat will be predominatly sailed two up, size was important, the bigger the boat the bigger the rigging and sails and the harder they can be to handle,

Welcome to the forum.

Actually the Spirited 380 has a taller mast and bigger sailplan than the Oram 44C

[northerncat]

i too have noticed this fact, it has a very aggressive sail plan which should amount to some fun sailing but better keep a hands on those sheets as you want a bullet to turn you into the first person to siritedly capsize 8-)
sean

[northerncat]

my 38 ft catamaran has a sail area of 59sq m compared to the spirited 96sq m
sean

[catty]

Originally Posted by northerncat

i too have noticed this fact, it has a very aggressive sail plan which should amount to some fun sailing but better keep a hands on those sheets as you want a bullet to turn you into the first person to siritedly capsize 8-)
sean

Sean, I suspect if the spirited 38 owners require the light air performance and "safety"? of an "easy" they can always reef to your 59sq M and drift around.

Its always nice to at least have the option of light air performance even if the particular boat requires early reefing.

[scarab]

Just returned from the La Rochelle Boatshow where I looked at the Fusion 40.
Looks like a fast catamaran. Very wide Beam : 7m20 / 23'4" !!
Pretty basic interior work. ( weight reduction )
Not my favourite cat and very expensive. With some cruising gear you're looking at 370.000 € + VAT.

Greetz,

Koen

[northerncat]

i dont disagree at all but i just know that on the eastern seaboard of aus 5 knot days are the exception and not the norm, not that i dont mind speed come from a hobie myself, just commenting that as 44 says its a big rig for a 38fter(more than his 44fter which is considered no slouch)
sean

[ireaney]

Originally Posted by scarab

Just returned from the La Rochelle Boatshow where I looked at the Fusion 40.
Looks like a fast catamaran. Very wide Beam : 7m20 / 23'4" !!
Pretty basic interior work. ( weight reduction )
Not my favourite cat and very expensive. With some cruising gear you're looking at 370.000 € + VAT.

Greetz,

Koen

I also just got back 1 hour ago from Le Grand Pavois, I had a long chat with the co-owner/builder and I had a good look over the Fusion 40, I understand from the owner that this boat is not yet completely finished, especially the interior, but the rest of the boat looks fantastic, great finish and attention to detail, I know it is a kit but you can't see the joins, seems a clever design and I suspect will be fast, the owner told me that in light winds about 8 knots she was easily hitting 5 plus.

[44'cruisingcat]

I guess it depends on what you're used to, but to me, 5 knots in 8 isn't particularly fast. The Spirited we've been talking about would likely sail at over 8 knots in 8. An Oram 44 I know sails at 6 knots in 5.

We raced a Fusion in an Oram 38 which had about 1/2 the sail area, (the Fusion's were carbon sails too, ours were dacron) and blew it to the weeds. In one race which took us 4 hours they took 6.

Our handicap was .82, their was .54, and we still beat them in the series on handicap.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by spiritcat

Featherlight - Most non structual internal furniture is built from featherlight with all exposed edges backfilled with an epoxy mix and then glassed, no water should enter the structure, and it is light.
Design Changes - Most of the internal furniture is pre cut, but there is the ability to personalise the final product to suit your own needs.

Do you actually have to GLASS all the exposed edges with Featherlight? I wasn't aware of this. An even better case for not using it IMHO - with Duflex simply de-coring and glue filling the edges is fine for interior use.

Getting glass to wrap around such a tight radius without getting air bubbles is not easy. Then you'll have to fair every edge.

You can make SMALL changes to the Spirited, but on my boat I have moved bulkheads, raised the sheer height because of my height, and increased the beam. All with the designers approval. You can't make changes of that nature with the Spirited or the Fusion.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by catty

Sean, I suspect if the spirited 38 owners require the light air performance and "safety"? of an "easy" they can always reef to your 59sq M and drift around.

Its always nice to at least have the option of light air performance even if the particular boat requires early reefing.

Kind of missing the point again aren't you? It was stated that the smaller boat has a smaller rig and sails. We just pointed out that in the case of the Spirited 380 that isn't so. It has a tall mast and big sails. It will perform well in light air but will need to be reefed early, calling for more sail handling.

[spiritcat]

Its good to see open discussion on this issue. I am well aware of the larger sail plan of the 380, it was one of the attractions, I certainly do not have concerns reefing if the conditions demand and would much prefer to have to be able to sail in lighter conditions than have to start a motor.
There was no need to make major changes to the 380 as it already had sufficient headroom and configured so that no structual items needed to me relocated.
As far as the featherlight goes, the preference for exposed edges where they may be impacted by crew or equipment is to fill and glass them, for example edges of seats. I am using a timber trim around bench tops so the need for glassing is reduced, but backfilling is still required. The paper honeycomb is impregnated with epoxy, so any water ingress will not have a major impact, I found this out when I left some pieces outside when it rained and the next day picked them up out of a puddle of water and when dry there was no change to the structure of the product.

[catty]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

I
We raced a Fusion in an Oram 38 which had about 1/2 the sail area, (the Fusion's were carbon sails too, ours were dacron) and blew it to the weeds. In one race which took us 4 hours they took 6.

Our handicap was .82, their was .54, and we still beat them in the series on handicap.

Mmmmm, if performance is what is required, then the spirited is the go.

44c , I'm not sure that what the sails are made from governs the speed of a fusion. Its the great big fat flat heavily rockered sterns that performs this task, and they do it really well.

Northerncat, try checking out some pilot guides for average wind strength. You may get a surprise. For instance at 1500 hrs on Hayman island in the Whitsundays around 55% of days during the year has a wind strength of between 0 and 11 knts (from "100 magic miles), Mmmmmmmmm, better start warming up those engines.