Fusion 40 or Spirited 380?

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by spiritcat

.... the bigger the boat the bigger the rigging and sails and the harder they can be to handle, ....

Originally Posted by spiritcat

I am well aware of the larger sail plan of the 380, it was one of the attractions,

Ah..... OK.

[northerncat]

Originally Posted by catty

Northerncat, try checking out some pilot guides for average wind strength. You may get a surprise. For instance at 1500 hrs on Hayman island in the Whitsundays around 55% of days during the year has a wind strength of between 0 and 11 knts (from "100 magic miles), Mmmmmmmmm, better start warming up those engines.

that is interesting, i will have to do a bit of research, i know that for the places ive lived cairns, bamaga and gold coast 20 has seemed to be the norm, on a side note where is the anemometer located on hayman, i ask cause you can have 5 knots in cairns and 25 out at green island
sean

[northerncat]

th other thing i was going to say was knowing my luck those days are always monday wednesday and thursday
8-)
sean

[catty]

Originally Posted by northerncat

that is interesting, i will have to do a bit of research, i know that for the places ive lived cairns, bamaga and gold coast 20 has seemed to be the norm, on a side note where is the anemometer located on hayman, i ask cause you can have 5 knots in cairns and 25 out at green island
sean

From the Australian pilot volume 3, east coast of Australia, it appears that for Cairns the south easterlies are in from around April to August with a mean wind-speed ( read average at 1500 hrs local) of around 6 knots. Seems low, and no I don't know where the instruments were for the 56 years of recorded data. Townsville has always seemed windier to me and its 1500 average is around ten knots. I suspect we always remember the windy days.

[spiritcat]

I was just checking the 'Scrumble' site and it says the 44c has a 100m2 sail area, I could not access Bob Orams site to confirm if this is correct or not. If true, then the 44c has a larger sail area than a 380 which is 96 m2.
The issue is not who is right or wrong, but we make our own decisions about what we seek in a design, be it length, sail area or others, and move forward from there.
Our decision to build a 380 was made after many years of research and after owning Crowther, Tennant and Simpson cats and also sailing on Farriers, Chamberlains and Wharrams both coastal and offshore.
You can reef to reduce sail area, but you cannot increase sail area if underpowered.

[44'cruisingcat]

Scrumble is going to have a bi-plane rig, so they may not have the standard sail area. Off the top of my head, standard working sail area (mainsail and no 2 jib) is around 85 sq metres. Standard mast height is 15.5m

Of course there is no right or wrong SA/displacement. I only mentioned it because you said that a smaller rig and sails was part of the reason for your choice, when actually your rig and sail area is a little larger.

I agree it's better to have more sail area available then not to have enough. I've increased the beam of my boat, and accordingly, (with approval of the designer) I'm increasing the mast height by 1/2 a metre, (the section comes in 16m lengths, and I figure why cut 1/2 a metre off?) and the sail area slightly, probably by around 5 m. With the increased righting moment, stability will be pretty much the same as standard.

I like the idea of a longer boat with a comparitively shorter rig. Resistance to pitchpoling is better, and bearing away when overpowered becomes a more viable option IMHO. Performance in very light stuff could suffer by comparison though, but then you can unfurl light weather sails. One 44C I know sails at 100% plus of TWS in 5 knots with the standard working rig, and I'd be perfectly satisfied with that.

Maneouvering around (and paying for) marinas I think we'd all like our boats to be smaller. But at sea I think a lot of us would like our boats to be longer. Waterline length takes a lot of beating, IMHO.

The 380 is a very nice boat, I know of 3 being built nearby. (Hervey bay.) Where abouts are you building yours?

[spiritcat]

Thanks for the response 44c. I never said that a smaller sail plan was a deciding factor, but that 'the bigger the boat the bigger the rigging and sails'. This is generally correct, but it was the larger sail plan of the 380 that was appealing as I love to sail and not motor and have often felt that a lot of designers tend to be conservative with sail area on cruising boats.
Boat speed is always relative to waterline length and Bob Oram has always used this principle in his designs to good effect. In a cat, waterline length and waterline to hull beam ratios are a deciding factor in overall hull performance.
I am one of the two home builders in Hervey Bay (the other being prfessionally built by my son) and I believe you know Paul Campbell, he has often spoken of you.
I would like to have a look at your progress sometime soon as I unerstand you are getting close to launching.

[44'cruisingcat]

Paul's a nice guy. You're very welcome to come have a look, Paul has my phone number.

[ameardevil]

Spiritcat
We are tossing up between a Spirited and a Schionning. Would like to know how the support has been from Spirited.
Thanks

[spiritcat]

We looked at both designers before deciding on the 380. Craig Schionning has always been available for discussion on issues with his design, but as with most designers is loath to make changes to his design when they seem very obvious.
Spiriteddesigns are like Schionnings in that they prefer that all material purchases go through them and this has caused some consternation with some builders although I have not had a problem as prices are as good as I have obtained elsewhere. I believe that Schionnings will only allow a defined amount of 'free' support after a set of plans have been purchased, but this is not the case with Spiriteddesigns.
The biggest support I have had is with other builders as there are 5 380s being built (other than my own) within a couple of hours drive of where I live (2 commercial builders included) and discussion between us all has made life a lot easier and allowed the buying power of a group to get good prices on some fit out equipment.
I hope this is of some assistance to you, and would highly recommend the 380. Costs to build may be higher than some other designs, but the time and complexity in building are low. When looking at designs to build about 18 months ago (and the 380 and Schionnings were not at the top of the list) our son who is a boat builder said that if he could give one piece of advice in determining a design, choose a design that does not entail too much fairing as it is the most demoralising part of boat building.
That focussed us on the kit panel designs and the rest is history.

[ameardevil]

Helps heaps, fell in love with the 380 at the boat show and have visited Stallion Marine and was impressed with the hull they were building. The 380 is a tad small for our anticipated life on board. This is both in terms of payload and length. Although the cost to build will be substantially higher we are close to choosing the 480

[spiritcat]

The 480 looks great, a big 380 with more room and capacity. I was talking to Craig last week and he indicated that he had not finished the detailed design but had several people interested in the 480. Good luck.

[freetime]

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