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Old 22-06-2015, 18:46   #76
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Re: Don't use the Main?

Chris, with all due respect, you really need to experience a good design, I have and I have to disagree with the conclusions you draw, a heavy boat will have big beamy flattish hulls, of course they will be more uncomfortable at speed.
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Andrew


Yes, it is called the law of physics.


In the case of a significant swell which if you are lucky is 6-8 seconds apart in peaks and if you are unlucky is confused and the peaks come from anywhere, if you push an object through that swell at anything close to wind angle, comfort for the occupants and safety for the boat will be directly proportional to speed through the water. This applies to both a bathtub and a gunboat. Even on the Queen Mary this is the case. That is why they have stabilisers.


Yes the degree of discomfort will vary from boat to boat, but from my experience the heavier the boat the more comfortable the ride.


Some may obtain some perverse pleasure in travelling at 10 knots in these conditions and the boat being thrashed to death and waves of seawater coming over the boat from in front and behind. Those that are more sensible will slow the boat to 8 knots thereby improving comfort and safety for boat and passengers. In order to achieve this the main needs to be reefed or in the worst case bought down. This is not a trivial task in those conditions.
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Old 22-06-2015, 19:48   #77
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Re: Don't use the Main?

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Back in the day my Dad had a gaff rigged schooner and some of my best memories are on that boat.

If the truth be known the battened big square top on my Seawind comes down like a guillotine. Something I have heard from many other multihull guys with big square tops. But I do try and keep the cars and track well acquainted with Maclube.

Poetry! Surely I am not the only one to recognize it as such.
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Old 22-06-2015, 19:59   #78
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Re: Don't use the Main?

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Idora,



I'm not certain what you mean? Why is it an odd thread? Could you clarify?



Yes, the thread is one of a kind, and fascinating at that. Focus on importance of design or the simple idea of what you want to do with your sailboat.
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Old 22-06-2015, 20:18   #79
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Re: Don't use the Main?

Here, more often or not when a sailboat has only one sail hoisted, it is the mainsail.


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Old 22-06-2015, 20:23   #80
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Re: Don't use the Main?

Andrew


Hardly surprising you hold that view.


Chris
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Old 23-06-2015, 00:36   #81
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Re: Don't use the Main?

It comes from experience Chris, from having sailed lots and lots of designs. For many people in the world the Multi world is Lagoon, FP and Leopard, for some of us it is much much more
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Old 23-06-2015, 02:00   #82
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Re: Don't use the Main?

Andrew

Yeah, yeah - standard broker patter. I have no interest in opinions of those with a vested interest. More interested in the views of people actually cruising.. Others can make up their own mind.
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Old 23-06-2015, 05:39   #83
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Re: Don't use the Main?

If you wish to base your opinions on a narrow set of experience - feel free, but don't call my integrity into question. Its neither fair nor justified.
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Old 23-06-2015, 06:04   #84
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Re: Don't use the Main?

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Originally Posted by Factor View Post
It comes from experience Chris, from having sailed lots and lots of designs. For many people in the world the Multi world is Lagoon, FP and Leopard, for some of us it is much much more
LOL - common Factor - we have sailed more different boats too - you don't even mention our previous cat the Catana? Actually, it all comes down to what we are looking for in a boat - are we cruising, racing, do we like luxury and weight or more simplistic with less weight and so on ... so your comment here is off.

Anyway - I must say I am quite fascinated with the mast being moved aft on these vessels and I can see some advantages whilst also having questions.

The smaller main does mean that if flying an asymmetric or spin that there is less interference in wind disturbance when sailing with the main up - we always take it down. So in this regard I would be quite intrigued to try it out.

Also, I would like to see the performance when closer hauled to the wind ... I have a feeling we would loose here (I am guessing though).

And then again I think with a bigger genoa the boat will perform better off the wind ... I find the main on our cat is not great for down wind sailing so we set the genoa out on a barber hauler and in this regard I can see benefits with the mast set back.

I observed an earlier comment with most cats motor sailing ... hmmm ... not my experience unless in very light weather and we want to get to that dive spot or something ...

I think Lagoon is onto something here, but I am keeping an eye on it ... not altogether convinced just yet.
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Old 23-06-2015, 23:50   #85
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Re: Don't use the Main?

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Just wanted to say that I thought the last 2 posts by Brian and Chris beautifully summarise why aft mast/smaller mainsails are attractive to me for our FreeFlow cruising cat.

Thanks guys
The other aspect of the Freeflow I like is the wishbone on the main. Quite a few advantages there apart from the simplicity.

Crowther with wishbone.

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Old 25-06-2015, 14:22   #86
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Re: Don't use the Main?

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The latest issue of "Sail" awards the Lagoon 39 as "Boat of the year" in its class. A lot of the credit goes to the farther aft-placed mast. This give the boat a smaller, more manageable mainsail. The magazine states that many multihull captains frequently don't use their main for just that reason - it's just too large and difficult to handle.

Is this true in your experience?
Absolute nonsense. If you have a sailboat mono or cat you need maximum mainsail for the boat. It is called sailing. Multi's need big full battened mains with good cars (harken or similar) on the main. The problem with these french multi's is the sail material. You can cut the weight of the main in half by using lightweight mainsail material. I have 43 Schionning cat and cost of leightweight material is small nowadays, it will not stretch and last 5 or more years. Mine is on year 5. I find most multi's that use Dacron sails have life of 2 years. Thats because they are all stretched out and will not sail to windward. You can stretch Dacron rather easily on a multi. You can verify this with any sailmaker.
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Old 25-06-2015, 14:36   #87
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Re: Don't use the Main?

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I find most multi's that use Dacron sails have life of 2 years. Thats because they are all stretched out and will not sail to windward. You can stretch Dacron rather easily on a multi. You can verify this with any sailmaker.
You must hang out with multis that choose cheap dacron.

There are high-modulus dacrons made specifically for high-load sails like on multis. These will last much more than 2yrs and still be in excellent shape.

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Old 25-06-2015, 14:53   #88
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Re: Don't use the Main?

Yes you are right. I was comparing the factory provided sail materials to good materials in the aftermarket.
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Old 25-06-2015, 15:14   #89
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Re: Don't use the Main?

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Originally Posted by RichandHelen View Post
The latest issue of "Sail" awards the Lagoon 39 as "Boat of the year" in its class. A lot of the credit goes to the farther aft-placed mast. This give the boat a smaller, more manageable mainsail. The magazine states that many multihull captains frequently don't use their main for just that reason - it's just too large and difficult to handle.

Is this true in your experience?
The simple answer is, no. I don't find our main too large and difficult to handle.

But obviously there would be others who would. Some people like sailing, they'll constantly be trimming sails to get the best out of their boat. Others would often rather just start the engine. Most people will fit somewhere in between.

I can see the attraction of having a proportionally bigger headsail. It would widen the range of conditions where them main wouldn't be required.

But then self-tacking (usually small) headsails have their attractions also....
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Old 25-06-2015, 19:09   #90
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Re: Don't use the Main?

We don't find our L400 main any more difficult than our L380 main was to handle. In fact the size has nothing to do with handling. Of course we have an electric halyard winch so maybe that has something to do with it. We usually run the mainsheet to the same winch when we trim. We pull the main up by hand about halfway till it's clear of the lazy jacks then a few turns in the winch but not in the self tailer so we have full control of up and down and don't risk breaking something.
On a side note, we did our first ever chicken gybe yesterday. In fact I think it was my first ever on any yacht in about 40yrs sailing. Maybe I've been reading CF too much! We had just raised the main and heading downwind in 25kn and for some reason the chicken gybe seemed appropriate to try out. Easy enough but not really necessary in my opinion.
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